Author Topic: 109 G2 and G6  (Read 628 times)

Offline bozon

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109 G2 and G6
« on: May 09, 2002, 11:57:28 PM »
flew in the CT yesterday, and since LW were badly out numbered, I was "forced" to take some BMW instead of a good trusty jug.

turned out to be an interesting experience to fly the 109G2 and a little G6. it is a capable fighter and even turns suprisingly well, only I wish for some 0.5 on it instead of that terrible nose gun.

after the good impression of the 109, the question:
usually, later models of WWII planes are faster and turn worse the the early ones. in the case of the G6 it seems to be slower, worse tuner and worse climber than the G2...
checked HTC graphs - the same conclusion.
so where is the tradeoff? does the G6 has some advantage over the G2 I am missing (besides the loadout options)?

Bozon

p.s.
If you know the secret of how to kill anything with 109 nose gun, please tell me, I'd like to learn.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Blue Mako

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2002, 12:28:18 AM »
I'm not an expert on 109s, far from it, but I've flown them in scenarios and in the CT a little.  I think the secret to killing with a LW gun is to get in close, then get in even closer, even then you're not really close enough...  The LW cannons have a tremendous amount of bullet drop and so have a completely different trajectory to the 0.5s you're used to and even the cowl mgs so my advice is to hold fire until 300 yds (as a maximum!) and only use one gun type at a time.

As to why the performance difference between marques, I don't know the answer.  Is the climb rate better?

Offline Urchin

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Re: 109 G2 and G6
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2002, 12:42:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
flew in the CT yesterday, and since LW were badly out numbered, I was "forced" to take some BMW instead of a good trusty jug.

turned out to be an interesting experience to fly the 109G2 and a little G6. it is a capable fighter and even turns suprisingly well, only I wish for some 0.5 on it instead of that terrible nose gun.

after the good impression of the 109, the question:
usually, later models of WWII planes are faster and turn worse the the early ones. in the case of the G6 it seems to be slower, worse tuner and worse climber than the G2...
checked HTC graphs - the same conclusion.
so where is the tradeoff? does the G6 has some advantage over the G2 I am missing (besides the loadout options)?

Bozon

p.s.
If you know the secret of how to kill anything with 109 nose gun, please tell me, I'd like to learn.


First things first.  Yes, the 109 does turn well.  In fact, it turns 'surprisingly' well for a lot of its opponents.  In so far as rating the turning of the 109 series- the G6 is the worst, G10 next, then G2, then F4, and the E4 is the best turner of the lot.  The 109G10 handles a lot like a P-51D that accelerates and climbs like a scalded cat- except it feels more nimble to me (but that may be because I'm used the 109 and not the P-51).  The E4 handles a lot like a crippled Spitfire (i.e. it is slow, but it turns well.  Not as well as any Spitfire though, but close to the IX.)

In between is where it gets really interesting.  At least in my opinion.  

As far as the G6 vs. G2, the G2 is faster, turns better, and accelerates better.  The G6 has twin 12.7mm instead of the 7.92mm in the nose of the G2, and it also has the option of packing a great big 30mm tater-gun, instead of the standard 20mm.  The G-6 is really only a viable aircraft if the G-10 is not available (because the G-10 is faster and turns better as well)- when the extra firepower over the G2 may make up for some sacrificed manueverability.  

As far as the "why" goes, I believe the G-6 was a bit heavier than the G-2 (because of the 12.7mm MGs), without a corresponding increase in horsepower.  Although the G-10 retained all the changes made to the G-6, it also has a bunch more horsepower to make up for the added weight (and it weighs more than the G-6 does as well, heavier engine).  

Oh, and as far as hitting things with the guns go- it is pretty much point and shoot.  You just have to be a little bit closer to get reliable hits.  The good news is you don't have to worry about convergence (unless you go with the gondolas, which I rarely do nowadays).

Hope that helps.

Offline Kweassa

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2002, 05:15:54 AM »
Urchin summed it up quite nicely, but to add my little piece of 'snake feet'( :D Asian metaphor meaning 'needless additional info' ):

 If I remember correctly, the G series of the 109s are one of the most complicated series with vast line of modifications and customization. Of those, our 109G-6 is the most 'standard' factory type introduced in early 1943. It is the heaviest of all 109s, and as Urchin said, increase of weight was due to heavier armament of MG131 7.92mm guns. I'm not sure if there were any additional changes such as increased armour, but one thing for certain, the MG131s had some problems when it was fitted into the cowl. The protruding bulges or 'warts' had negative effect on aerodynamics.

 One of the positive changes were the increase in visibility via introduction of the Erla Haube(canopies with less frames) and Galland Hood(transparent armoured glass behind the pilot's head), but this factor is not very prominent in AH since the rear view is very lenient anyway.

 The result, as Urchin said, with limited power + added weight + aerodynamic problems is our G-6. Slower than a G-2, top speed is almost the same as the 109F-4 around 387~390mph (introduced in 1941). The G-6 maneuvers the worst of all 109s, but like other 109s it is very forgiving and unbelievably stable even at low speeds with a gentle stall.

 One very positive factor for the G-6 is the G6/U8 type armament with the MK108 30mm nose gun. One hit knocks an enemy plane dead with almost 99% probability. Of all my fights with MK108s, I have only seen two cases where the enemy survived a hit. (One was a 650 yard lucky hit on a La-7 which knocked out it's flap, and the other was on a P-38 at 260 yards where it lost it's left engine only)

 Now, the G-2 maybe agile and more capable a pure 'dogfighter', but since it won't be able to slug it out with planes like Spitfires anyway no matter how agile it is, anyone flying 109G series  would probably be subjected to strict Energy tactic principles. And if that is the case, provided one's gunnery is above average, flying the G-6 which can destroy the target at a single pass might even be a better choice.

 Making a real critical hit on a single pass with the G-2 is harder and it prolongs the fight where often even mere 30 seconds can determine the outcome. I've had a lot of cases where I up a G-2, fight the enemy to the bone, land a few hits but had to extend away because the fight was taking too long and enemy reinforcements arrived. With the MK108, a rotte of two G-6s can be even more deadly than two G-2s.

 I've had some lessons with Frenchy some months back, when I couldn't seem to find anyway to fight P-51Bs with alt advantage in a 109G-6 at the Combat Theatre. Frenchy kindly took up a 109G-6, and I upped a P-51B and he showed me a few pointers in fighting against Allied(especially USAAF) planes.

 Fortunately I have those films, and I can e-mail it to you if you are interested, bozon. I asked Frenchy a lot of questions that time and all of those questions are recorded in the film too :)

Offline bozon

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2002, 11:18:15 AM »
many thx for the usefull replys Urchin & Kweassa :cool:

I'd love to see those films!
Frenchy vs Borete (jug vs 109) film is the one that really helped me with the jug, when I started a few month back. So there must be a thing or two I can learn from him about the 109 as well :)

thx to Frenchy too :)
Bozon

bozon@332viking.com
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline 2Slow

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2002, 04:52:47 PM »
I've had some lessons with Frenchy some months back, when I couldn't seem to find anyway to fight P-51Bs with alt advantage in a 109G-6 at the Combat Theatre. Frenchy kindly took up a 109G-6, and I upped a P-51B and he showed me a few pointers in fighting against Allied(especially USAAF) planes.

Fortunately I have those films, and I can e-mail it to you if you are interested, bozon. I asked Frenchy a lot of questions that time and all of those questions are recorded in the film too


Please email me the films as well! Jmoews1@rap.midco.net
2Slow
Secundum mihi , urbanus resurrectio
TANSTAAFL

Offline Virage

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2002, 06:32:21 PM »
g6 will outturn g10
JG11

Vater

Offline Wotan

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2002, 08:38:51 AM »
g6 Normal loaded weight: 6940 lbs.
 
g2 Normal loaded weight: 6834 lbs.

g6


g2

Offline tallyho1

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2006, 01:15:21 PM »
Hi Guys, great stuff on the German Steel! I am just learning to fly them, would it be possible to see th films as well? I like the g2 and f4 at the moment but still very early days!

Email addy is jon@bspartnership.co.uk

Thanks!

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Re: 109 G2 and G6
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2006, 02:30:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
The G6 has twin 12.7mm instead of the 7.92mm in the nose of the G2, and it also has the option of packing a great big 30mm tater-gun, instead of the standard 20mm.  

Sadly, this is no longer true.  We lost the tater gun in the last 109 patch.  Now you fly it with the option of one 20mm and two 12.7s, or one 20mm and two 12.7s.

In AvA we've flown the G6 quite a lot because, of course, that's what the Germans flew quite a lot.  It always seemed a bit trickier to me than the G2, but once mastered it's a very nice ride, and I prefer it to the G2, just because I'm familiar with it and because the heavier machine guns do make a difference.  Use the flaps, try to do your turns in the vertical (up or down, depending on your speed) as much as possible, keep your feet working on the rudder.

- oldman

Offline Pooface

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 02:48:49 PM »
the g6 is a nice ride, but the g2 does everything better.



the key to the german planes is experience and practise really. just fly and die in them a lot, and you'll get the hang of them. and as said with the guns, get in close. erich hartmann said that; once he fills the entire windscreen, you can't possibly miss.

Offline SAS_KID

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2006, 06:13:24 PM »
wpw this post is 4 years old hehehehe:lol
Quote from: hitech on Today at 09:27:26 AM
What utter and compete BS, quite frankly I should kick you off this bbs for this post.

The real truth is you do not like the answer.

HiTech

Offline Pooface

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2006, 06:18:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
wpw this post is 4 years old hehehehe:lol




yeah lol.

Offline Vudak

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 07:20:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
wpw this post is 4 years old hehehehe:lol


Imagine, someone using the search function :D
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline bozon

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109 G2 and G6
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2006, 04:08:04 AM »
Imagine, I was a noob 4 years ago.
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and still am.

:D
Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs