F4u4............

[Nifty]

DOA, I didn't mean you, was referring to Mandoble's hispano post.  I shoulda quoted, my mistake.

4 model Hog should be a little less, it's not twice as good as the Ta152 is it?

[Tac]

Check new thread for something that popped in me head last night. May be a solution to the perk issue.  

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Nifty:
4 model Hog should be a little less, it's not twice as good as the Ta152 is it?

I agree than the F4U-4 is too pricey, but...

That is a falacious argument.  Are the F4U-1C, Ta-152H-1, F4U-4, Tempest MkV and Me262A-1 infinetly better than the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, La-7, P-51D or N1K2-J?

That is the same argument.

[Steven]

Kieren, I don't get the comment about cutting the planeset by 1/3.  My mentioning the early-war planes was really an example.  So if an F4U-4 and Tempest are that much greater of a killing machine than the LA7 and a few other nasties and have to be perked, would this line of thinking then apply to these same LA7s and D9s if we ever see Wildcats and Warhawks?  I already know the answer because the threads touch upon it quite a bit.  This relates to the topic about how what you fly does impact what others can fly and that "fly what you want to fly" is a Catch-22.  I would totally love to be able to fly Warhawks and Wildcats but I'm not good enough a stick to ever have any enjoyment doing it in the MA because I'd be a quick snack for the billions of late-war aircraft people.   I actually just think it interesting how (if the planeset were more fuller, you'd really see this) the freedom of choice ends up limiting a "valid" choice in itself.  When it's free ME262 night, I dare you to fly a P38 or G6 throughout and see if your enjoyment has mutated.  This is another one of them things where you can't please everyone.  

I've personally only flown a perk plane once in the MA since April, and that was an F4U-1C which I neither got a kill in nor was killed in.  That's it.  To be honest, I'm fine w/ the system as it is overall, but I like to test any rule.

[Kieran]

Steven, you misunderstand me. I am 100% for controlling the planeset in some manner IF and WHEN there are enough early-war planes to justify it. Where we disagree is when that situation exists. You think that situation exists, I'm not convinced at this point. I also believe it is a dangerous experiment for HTC, because the user base is growing at this point. This would suggest that, at least in the short term, they are on the right track.

Would I love to see Oscars, P-40's, F4F's, 109E's, Spit I's, Hurri I's, He111's Dorniers, Vals, Kates, etc., heck yes. Do I agree the arena perk system will need adjustment if these planes make it in, heck yes. They don't appear in our list yet, therefore I think dramatically changing the perk arrangement in anticipation of them, especially since there has been no indication of their impending inclusion, is premature.

[Steven]

Kieren,

Way cool.  But we actually agree, that's why I'm confused.  I don't think I made it sound like I want to perk the LA7.  I was just using early planes as an "example."  In fact, I started everything by saying unperk everything and let everyone fly what they want to fly.  But then I got into my own devil's advocate thingy.  Maybe that confused.  I guess I was playing two sides of the fence, but to illustrate that many of the points stated by players sort of contradict each other at times.  My biggest gripe are with those people who say to me "but you can fly the F4F any time it's introduce w/out needing to perk the LA7 or N1K" and yet they stand behing perking the ME262, F4U-4 and other aircraft because there are too many (so let's restrict people from flying what they want to fly) or they are too powerful a foe for their LA7, D9 or N1K.  Anyway, I am actually fine w/ the perk system as it is right now and do not call for any change.  An F4U-4 is to a 109D9 what a 109D9 is to a Wildcat...and I hope that is remember in the future.

(Anyway, I'd bet money we don't see a Wildcat or Warhawk for more than a year.)

[Tac]

"(Anyway, I'd bet money we don't see a Wildcat or Warhawk for more than a year.)"

and if they do come in without having a drastic change in the perk system or adding a RPS arena, they'd be wasted effort to model. Just as you dont see hurricanes up in the same numbers as la7's.. because a single la7 can butcher them and get away.

[whels]

Originally posted by Steven:
Kieren,

  An F4U-4 is to a 109D9 what a 109D9 is to a Wildcat...and I hope that is remember in the future.
.)

mmm no,, F4U-4 is to a F4U-1 what  D9 is to an A5, or spit14 to spit9. the 51d d9 and fu4-4 are comptemporaries of each other.

whels

[Kieran]

Whels-

You do realize you are attributing that quote to the wrong person? Those are Steven's words, not mine.  

[whels]

Originally posted by Kieran:
Whels-

You do realize you are attributing that quote to the wrong person? Those are Steven's words, not mine.  

yep sorry, cutter went too far  , but u wanted to say it anyway .

whels

[hazed-]

OK PEOPLE LETS WRAP THIS ONE UP: state your camp be it 1,2 or 3 or ALL

1. ALL those that think the F4u4 is a tad too high in perk cost
3.ALL those that agree perking the late warplanes now would be too early say aye  
2.ALL those that agree that if we get more early planes the later versions should be perked?

easy   mwahaha

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

[Kieran]

4. I want all my choices put in correct numerical order.

5. All of the above.  

[kbman]

Ditto

BTW hazed, great winging with you in -4s that night in the TA, lots of fun killing 262s when neither they nor I was worried about losing perks.

kbman

[whels]

Originally posted by hazed-:
[QB]OK PEOPLE LETS WRAP THIS ONE UP: state

1. ALL those that think the F4u4 is a tad too high in perk cost

2.ALL those that agree that if we get more early planes the later versions should be perked?

[Steven]

Whels,

I thought it was pretty simple but you aren't understanding.  What I stated was an example in terms of superiority and the perk heirarchy and not a lesson in aircraft-variants.  The F4U4 is perked because it is superior to the LA7 or D9 or almost everything else flying in the MA.  So if a superior plane is to be perked, what'll happen to the LA7s and others if Wildcats, Warhawks and A6M2s are introduced?  And thus the statement "an F4U4 is to a D9 what a D9 is to a Wildcat."  I didn't think it was that hard to grasp.  

And yeah, I don't think early planes will be introduced and why I originally stated I will either supplement Aces High with "Target Rabaul" or maybe even TR will become my main mount and AH supplements it.

(Yum yum yum)
 http://www.targetrabaul.com/images_snaps/sbd3_121301.jpg

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]