Author Topic: spitXIV is beyond crappy (Read 1298 times)

Widewing · « **Reply #30 on:** May 24, 2002, 03:21:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
and it's unstable... just slips left 'n right.

Why it's perked and the 109G10, 190D9, P51D, and N1K2 aren't is beyond me.
-SW

Yeah, it is a bit unstable in the yaw axis, hence the increase in vertical stablizer area. And yes, there's a great deal or torque to contend with. Both can be disconcerting to someone not familiar with these characteristics.

Yet I must ask, so what?

This fighter is a beast. I've flown it extensively during squad training nights in the TA. It is untouchable. Using the cliche, "flying rings around them" would not be misplaced. In the MA, I've found it considerably superior to the La-7 and P-51 in 1 on 1 combat with fairly decent sticks in the other fighters. It is the best "air superiority fighter" in the game, period. Seriously, it will make an average pilot look like a genius, as long as he uses the fighter's advantages, and avoids low-level, low-speed furballs, where anything can happen (and usually does).

BTW, Sir Loin is exactly correct. I've climbed right out of potential gangers, while my pursuers foundered below.

If I had to pick the three most dangerous aircraft (excluding jets)in this game, for the environment we fly in, I'd select the Spitfire XIV, Tempest and F4U-4 in order. In 4th place I'd pick the Hurricane IIC. That's right, the Hurri. Then the La-7, P-51, Dora and so on.

My regards,

Widewing

Cobra · « **Reply #31 on:** May 24, 2002, 03:53:10 PM »

I believe SW is trying to say that it just doesn't feel right.

Cobra

X2Lee · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2002, 04:02:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
You obviously can't fly it. Last night I flew it, started with upping from a field which was soon to be attacked, avoided all tiffies and 109's and got up to 12k, then turned back, made a few passess, as soon as anyone, even the 109's got close I simply climbed away.
is just enough.

I have to agree, maybe they have thier sticks too sensitive or just cant fly spits

Its easy to fly, handles well, I think its stable at high or low speeds
At least more stable than a 38...

Karnak · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2002, 09:32:24 PM »

Weeelllll, speaking as a Spit XIV fan I have to say I really like the FM in AH. The WB Spit XIV was a joke.

As to it being perked, yes, absolutely it must be perked. I think all perk planes, even the 262, are too expensive, but especially the prop fighters which only enjoy a slight edge over the top end free fighters. I also disagree with the "gangbang icons", but both of these are separate issues.

(Please, please put 3D cam covers on the Spit XIV, the 2D ones look silly and the cockpit view is wrong without the 3D cam covers)

About perk modifications on the last adjustment.

F4U-1C, was 8 perks, +2 perks to 10 perks
Ta152H-1, was 30 perks, -10 perks to 20 perks
F4U-4, was 60 perks, -10 perks to 50 perks

All others remained the same.

wantok · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2002, 11:02:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing

If I had to pick the three most dangerous aircraft (excluding jets)in this game, for the environment we fly in, I'd select the Spitfire XIV, Tempest and F4U-4 in order. In 4th place I'd pick the Hurricane IIC. That's right, the Hurri. Then the La-7, P-51, Dora and so on.

interesting... what is it about the Hurri IIC that earns it a place in your list, Widewing? i've barely ever flown it, but given that it has an ENY score of 40 at the moment in the MA, i'm intrigued.

Tac · « **Reply #35 on:** May 24, 2002, 11:52:24 PM »

wantok... 4X20mm , great turning, decent speed (not fast, but not horribly slow).

In short, its a snapshot plane. A high speed plane makes a pass at you, turn hard one way, reverse roll, turn hard back into him, shoot a few quad 20mms at him while hes at around d300~d600 . 1 or 2 pings is all you need . Once you get used to the 20mm ballistics you'll be able to snap a shot at almost anything from any angle and hit it, provided its in range. Its low ammo load is its only drawback

That hurricane is quite deadly if flown that way.

Karnak · « **Reply #36 on:** May 25, 2002, 12:06:22 AM »

334mph isn't horribly slow?

If that isn't horribly slow, praytell, what fighter in AH is?

Its slower than the A6M5b.

-tronski- · « **Reply #37 on:** May 25, 2002, 02:55:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Granted, when one plane constitutes 20% or more of the arena usage it will be perked according to HTC's guidelines.

However, my point is that the guidelines should change. There was a thread several weeks (maybe even a month or so ago) that had the plane usage and highlighted various planes.

Of the planes I mentioned, two of them held almost 20% of the kills (together) in the MA for a single tour. Think it was last tour. P51D and N1K2-J. The La-7 held 7.4% of the total arena kills.
The 109G10 and 190D9 are naturally not as popular, however when you look at their brethren then you see that it's basically "grab the bestest latest ride"..
The 190D9 had 3.88% and the 109G10 had 3.47%.

The 190A5 and A8 (F8 excluded since it's a Jabo) had 2.76%... combined.

The 109G2, F4 and G6 had 2.45% combined. I excluded the E4 because I don't know if it was in for the whole tour.

The chart is in this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49959&highlight=perk

I know all I have is an opinion, I never said it was anything otherwise. However, when you look at these statistics it's obvious that making them low perk point rides (2-3 perk points, c'mon you can get that in one flight!) would up the usage in the MUCH less used variants and would bring more parity to the arena. As in, the early war rides don't have that much of a speed disadvantage over the other rides that would be common.

Wotan, SirLoin might do well in it (hell, I got 5 kills in it without dying and rtbed... I don't have a problem in it either) but that doesn't mean it's not laterally unstable.
-SW

I'm of the opinion that new a/c should be intially unperked, assessed , then have some perk value attached after a proper time has passed. New aircraft are always common when introduced, but usually drop off after a time.

The Spit XIV should have been treated this way I feel. Lets see if it dominated before adding 60 pts, or add perks accordingly. I truly believe there was an anti-spitfire attitude by the AH community to its introduction and subsquent price tag. If it is such a dog, it's use will fall off and other similar unperked rides (P-51 etc) will still continue to dominate as before.

Tronsky

Vector · « **Reply #38 on:** May 25, 2002, 03:05:35 AM »

When looking at the overall K/D's of the three fighters with somewhat same cost, we can find interesting figures;

Spit XIV: 564/417 = 1.35
F4U-4: 456/217 = 2.10
Tempest: 875/173 = 5.05!

Can't recall any other fighter ever having this high K/D.

I've flown Spit XIV few times only offline and I must say that I didn't find it too much uber comparing to spit IX. Perhaps its perk value should be decreased. It's kind of ironic to have best fighters ever flown in WWII in AH, but they are mostly hangar queens because of the cost. OTOH we have spits everywhere already...
IMO P-51, LA-7, SPIT IX and N1K2 should be cheap-perked. 109G-10 should not. 109's are quite rare in the MA nowadays.

Widewing · « **Reply #39 on:** May 25, 2002, 12:52:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by wantok

interesting... what is it about the Hurri IIC that earns it a place in your list, Widewing? i've barely ever flown it, but given that it has an ENY score of 40 at the moment in the MA, i'm intrigued.

Tac pretty much covered everything. Speed? Arrive at a fight with decent alt, and you have enough speed for most circumstances. How deadly is Hurricane IIC? Typically, you can get 4 kills per reload (just 91 rounds per gun). You also get bounced frequently, but avoidance isn't usually a problem, 'cause it turns so well. You'd be surprised how many guys try to HO the Hurri. That's a bad idea, as those 4 hizookas are devastating. The Hurricane IIC can make an average pilot, using sound judgement and sharp SA, look very good.

There is a down side. This is directly related to it's lack of speed. You must fight your way out of gangbangs, because you can't run. In addition, smart enemy pilots will avoid the Hurricane, unless they can blindside it. Since you cannot chase down enemies without an altitude advantage, opportunities are limited. Thus, you learn to kill enemies from angles you would not normally take a shot from. Anything less than those 4 Hispanos would make this very difficult. Your best bet is to work the edges of furball, starting high, working up and down, only turnfighting when you can isolate an enemy. Only the Zero can out-turn the Hurricane. Even so, at speeds above 250 mph, the Hurri can hold its own, and has a significant advantage in roll rate at higher speeds. Anytime you meet a Zeke on the merge, try to pinch and kill it off angle, Even if you miss, you have already started turning first, giving you a good chance for a deflection shot seconds later. Spitfires? If they elect to turnfight, they generally die.

How do you fight Hurricanes? Treat them like Zeros, but remember that their guns are far more lethal and any mistake can be instantly fatal.

My regards,

Widewing

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #40 on:** May 25, 2002, 01:20:50 PM »

Some people reply without reading. Some people reply with the completely wrong thing after reading.

And then some people reply with their own jibber jabber about "I'm a god, it's not hard for me... why are you complaining?"

Well I'm not complaining and I don't find the plane particularly hard, as anyone with a pair of eyeballs below their forehead and above their mouth should be able to plainly see in one of my posts above.

However, the damn thing is still more unstable laterally than it's counterparts which are free.

I never said unperk the SpitXIV, I never said change the price. I said perk those aircraft cheaply and be done with this mythical perk system and give it some real meaning. As it is now, it's just used to perk *SOME* of the uber monsters while leaving others unleashed.

That makes about as much sense as urinating on a 1,000watt electric fence.
-SW

MuadDib of Dune · « **Reply #41 on:** May 25, 2002, 01:45:21 PM »

I havent flown it this tour but my previous observations were pretty much what I expected. Its the fastest spit with the poorest ACM performance. And yes, its over perked but its not wrong. At least no more wrong, or right, than anything else that I can think of....

Bottom line, fly smartly or shaddup already

SKurj · « **Reply #42 on:** May 25, 2002, 03:51:23 PM »

4 kills per reload in a hurriC??? lol

mebbe if u are strafing tanks...

SKurj

Hristo · « **Reply #43 on:** May 27, 2002, 02:46:39 AM »

SpitXIV, D-9, P51D and La7 belong to same category, IMO.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** May 27, 2002, 02:54:42 AM »

However, the damn thing is still more unstable laterally than it's counterparts which are free.

So what?