Author Topic: "They raped everyone from eight to 80" (Read 5255 times)

Hortlund · « **Reply #180 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:40:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by --am--

If it is the fact, where the proofs? If there are no proofs, it not the fact.

Total Soviet dead, caused by Soviet government from November 1917 to January 1987: 61 911 000, 54,769,000 of them citizens.

In sum, the Soviets have committed a democide of 61,911,000 people, 7,142,000 of them foreigners. This staggering total is beyond belief. But, as shown in Figure 1.1, it is only the prudent, most probable tally, in a range from an highly unlikely, low figure of 28,326,000 (4,263,000 foreigners); and an equally unlikely high of 126,891,000 (including 12,134,000 foreigners). This is a range of uncertainty in our democide estimates--an error range--of 97,808,000 human beings.

Figure 1.1:

[edit] I cant seem to get the picture to work right now (it is a picutre of a page detailing all the deaths in that 61 million-figure) I'll post it when I get home.

cvb--- · « **Reply #181 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:49:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
(This was followed up in the TV series "the cold war".)

No comment

However, had the russians been the aggressor, I doubt that the brutality would have been much less.

That is some total and complete absurd. Russians have never aimed to eliminate certain ethnic groups in order to emphasize the kewlness of the arian race :eek

Thrawn · « **Reply #182 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:50:45 AM »

What Histro said.

Threats of physical violence?? Please lock this puppy.

No one is listening to each other anyway.

cvb--- · « **Reply #183 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:51:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

Total Soviet dead, caused by Soviet government from November 1917 to January 1987: 61 911 000, 54,769,000 of them citizens.

One wise man said: "My PRO FORMA noodle is 10 inches long. However, my GAAP performance is a lot less impressive".

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #184 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:52:09 AM »

AM, and Boroda, I hate so much having to repeat myself:

"The only things that saved Russia was the winter, and being in dug in positions in some areas- but military cohesian was certainly not one of them."

Which means pockets of resistence.

The Russian army was not prepared for an attack. The leaders did not initiate a response to the German attacks, individually- many squadrons got airborne to stop the attack. The leaders did nothing, however, to preserve what they assumed was a nonagression pact between Russia and Germany.

The Germans advanced Blitzkrieg style across Russia until they hit pockets of resistance and then it ground down to a halt due to the winter.

Who needs to buy books? Probably you fellas in Russia since your country has done a helluva job covering up it's attrocities and mistakes while under communist reign.

I never said Russia or it's people were evil- it's leaders, especially Stalin- were.
-SW

Boroda · « **Reply #185 on:** May 30, 2002, 09:59:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

Total Soviet dead, caused by Soviet government from November 1917 to January 1987: 61 911 000, 54,769,000 of them citizens.

BWA HA HA HA HA.

Stakes rise.

Who will finaly reach a 300,000,000 point?

I wonder how does this happen that there are still some people living here!?

You'd better stop smoking that thing. Tell your dealer next time to wrap it in Playboy page instead.

Tah Gut - thank you.

scspook · « **Reply #186 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:02:24 AM »

Its not a matter of forgetting or a possessing a lack of knowledge about the Sacrifices from men of all countries.

Its about Learning from it. Giving meaning to that sacrifice.
Something we, no matter what our beliefs, race, culture and country are, as human beings sharing the one Planet for thousands of years are incredibly inept at.

The arguements in this thread are simply repeating those same mistakes. Mistakes that cost men, women and children their lives in countless bloody battles, crimes and Wars.

Your creating your own little Cold War as you argue over the reasoning of things past. You fall into the same trap you accuse the other side of. Ignorance and racial hatred.

As this thread proves from the characters clashing with it. It appears much easier to start a war, than to stop one and those of us that exist 50 years on can make the same mistakes in the blink of an eye over the smallest of arguements.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #187 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:02:57 AM »

The russians were the agressor on finnish borders, don't forget that.

And yes, there is such a thing as investigative journalism on tv - it doesn't have to come from a book to be credible.

Boroda and AM can't grasp the decades of lies their nation has been fed which is why it's impossible to change their attitudes. The difference is already clear with the nations which were occupied by USSR - they see the truth which the russians nationalism denies. That's understandable.

Maybe it's a bad comparison with nazi's but I'd definately say both systems were evil. Spending a lifeitime behind the iron curtain or choosing death by nazi's.. Nice selection of choices.

--am-- · « **Reply #188 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:04:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
curtain. (This was followed up in the TV series "the cold war".) Aside from that, I do not think this is so unbelivable, - russian policy at the time was an aggressive one. But anyway, the

TV, TV, In 1999 to me one has addressed American UFO-man. In USA have shown film where ostensibly in 1968 (or 1969) year KGB has found the space ship of the newcomers and has carried out opening bodies of the newcomers. As the proofs the broadcasting company has shown a film about a find of the ship by the soldiers KGB and opening of a body of the newcomer, and also piece of the newspaper with a note about fall of a meteorite. UFO-man wanted, whether that I have confirmed there is such newspaper. I have told about this history familiar to the journalist. She has found out, that an all this fake. TV-company came in Russia, has employed the actors and under St.-Petersburg has made this forgery. I saw record of interview with the assistant of the director of this film. She has told, that western employees of a TV-company have told them, that it is advertising film. When I have told to the American the truth, a bit later he has informed me, that TV-company any has threatened to submit to court on him and to take away all money and property. He was frightened. When the Russian broadcasting company "VID", has tried to expose western TV-swindlers, to her also have threatened with suit and to bring her employees in " the black list ".

I to tell this history, in which I took part, that you have understood - never on TV speak of the truth. TV of any state this instrument of propagation or instrument to make money on the fools. Therefore to me all the same, that you saw on TV. It is all a lie.

Boroda · « **Reply #189 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:04:46 AM »

AKSWulfe, you finally hit the point: USSR didn't want that war, neither it started it. But it have won it, despite of the fact that it wasn't ready and was in a hurry rearming it's army. To quote one wise man - our cause was just, the enemy was defeated, we won.

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I never said Russia or it's people were evil- it's leaders, especially Stalin- were.
-SW

One simple question: why?

And you know I didn't mean you. Anyway - I beg your pardon.

--am-- · « **Reply #190 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:09:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

Total Soviet dead, caused by Soviet government from November 1917 to January 1987: 61 911 000, 54,769,000 of them citizens.

Again there are no proofs. You can write any figures, but without the proofs both references to sources and documents all this roadkill

--am-- · « **Reply #191 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:12:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I never said Russia or it's people were evil- it's leaders, especially Stalin- were.
-SW

You know what has told Chechill about Stalin, when Stalin has died?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #192 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:12:47 AM »

I'm sorry Boroda, I thought you meant I thought Russia was evil.

Yup, Russia was not the agressor and did not want the war. That much is very clear.

The war is not what made Stalin, and some of his "cohorts" evil, it's what they did just prior to the war.. the purges. I believe Russia could have and would have easily stopped the German advance if the military (and other areas) hadn't been purged... but this set the precedent to allow Germany to advance.

They did a helluva job, no doubt, holding on to the land they had left and relocating their industries to wage a war that was not theirs and they were not prepared to fight.

Believe me when I say this, I respect the Russian people for what they did and for their resolve (to not be pushed over by Germany and fight back despite the disarray the military was in initially)... plus- when a country makes a tank with wings that would inspire fear in German infantry and armor columns... then I can't not respect them.

It's just some of the leaders were inherently evil by instituting purges just before (and still during the opening months) of the war.
-SW

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #193 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:14:46 AM »

--am-- so now you're comparing real world investigative journalists and historians to ufo stories? I bet you believed the story too untill they revealed the hoax.

cvb--- · « **Reply #194 on:** May 30, 2002, 10:18:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
it's what they did just prior to the war.. the purges. I believe Russia could have and would have easily stopped the German advance if the military (and other areas) hadn't been purged... but this set the precedent to allow Germany to advance.

Can we say AFRIKA CORPS? German military was phenomenal, that's why blitzkrieg worked.