"They raped everyone from eight to 80"

[--am--]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
--am-- are you still so stupid or blind to see that official soviet documents were fabricated roadkill with no grounds on reality?
 

At you obvious problems with logic. If to avoid punishment, it is necessary send the false documents, why to be afraid? This so is easy - has written a lie and the heads has not learned the truth and has not punished. All to all is written by the false documents and all to avoid punishment. Stalin to not know what is done in the state because all documents false? You to speak the large nonsense. Any state functions only if there is a truthful information. There is no truthful information - state breaks up also people die out. However USSR existed 70 years and became from the agrarian country in the super-country. And you count, what it is all it was possible if all wrote in the documents one false? You to speak the large nonsense. You, which to not know even an own history tell to me a history of Russia? You are ridiculous. You can not result any proof confirming the fairy tales at all. Any of shelfs, which ostensibly wholly was lost. Name to me number it a shelf and I shall look where he was at war and that there was. But you will not name never, because you do not have facts. At you of one propaganda fairy tale. To you have washed out brains in childhood and you it to not understand.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Let me just point out this then, the USSR could just as easily have avoided the death of 20 million Soviet soldiers and 20 million civilians in ww2 by just surrendering on June 22nd 1941.

You're serious ?

[--am--]

Originally posted by Hortlund

Well, Sweden is ideed a semi-socialist state, not sure about the corruption though. Most northwestern european countries (Germany, Benelux, UK and Nordic countries) have practically no corruption at all.

You again speak a lie. Even the ex-chancellor of Germany Helmut Koll  was under court in accusation about larceny of money. And what to speak about fineer officials.

Originally posted by Hortlund

Let me just point out this then, the USSR could just as easily have avoided the death of 20 million Soviet soldiers and 20 million civilians in ww2 by just surrendering on June 22nd 1941.

If your country will attack, you will not be at war even knowing, what to you will be applied mass destruction of the people? Germany wanted to destroy 90 % of the people living in USSR, and 10 % to make by the slaves. It is described in the German document "OST", which was submitted in Nuremberg.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by straffo


You're serious ?

Straffo, you kinda miss the point when you dont include the part you snipped...

I said what he wrote was so outrageously stupid that it would be the same as if I said [insert your quoted part]...

Relax Straffo, get a beer, I'm not sure what kind of opinion you have of me, but I'm not nearly as bad as you seem to think.

[Fishu]

--am--,

It didn't seem to me like it was choice of their free will to let US have military base in their country.
Not to mention that situation was far different than with Finland.
Cuba being under influence of communists and Afganistan full of anti-americans.
Finland again...  pretty much neutral and probably couldn't have cared less to mess with russians.

What would have prevented USSR from keeping little army there and later on crush Finland from their military base because they felt like need for more ground for the sake of national security?

You don't know what I know, so quit talking in the way as if I would be illiterate.

...and you're the naive fairy telling the tales.
Quite hard to discuss with a person who can't see with his own eyes.


hehe.. you're actually making me laugh with 'original documents' arqument.
That'd be as hilarious reading as german war time propaganda.

OF COURSE those documents won't be talking against the nation.
You could just as well walk into Al Qaeda's headquorters and ask for documents, which would pretty much say they're on the right path and hasn't done anything wrong.

Obviously soviet propaganda has taught some people to believe just as some westerners have been taught of soviets - "they're brainwashed by propaganda, are bad people and we are the rightful ones"


Boroda,

When I watch movies, those are just movies for me.
the "russians are very very bad guys" propaganda is glowing brighter than gas fire.
Neither do I think US as awesome piece of democracy and totally uncorrupted country, just because movies says they're the good guys with rambos et al.

You only need to keep attention to history and you'll find out alot of things which can't be just false.
If some history was false, it was the history taught in USSR.

Im sure finns would ally with germans again if the situation would be the same.
Without germans, large part of people would be speaking russian and things would be like in Poland.
No thanks, have fun with your lovely communistic leaders, im perfectly happy with mine. (even though theres rotten ones.. but thats far better choice than Stalin)

[--am--]

You again to demonstrate nonsense. You to not know a difference between the document with a signature stamp "top secret" and propagation in the newspaper. From your words it is visible, that you never in life held in hands the documents from archives, differently would not speak such nonsense. In the documents from archives there is all - both bad and good. Because with bad it was necessary to struggle (and with it struggled very rigidly), and good it was required to develop and to support. Therefore I speak, that I know about a history of Russia the good facts and bad facts. You do not know any facts, and try to present a usual set propagation of myths and to give out it for the facts. It refers to as forgery. You at all do not know a history of the country, and to estimate a history of Russia. It at you always in brains, what all Russian are silly also them "democracy" is necessary to teach? Your country struggled for íàöèçì both your government and army did not judge in Nuremberg only because of kindness Stalin. He has pitied you and has forgiven. He was the great man and it could allow to forgive of enemies. You are not able to forgive, at you it is too much intolerance to another's values not enough tolerance.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Straffo, you kinda miss the point when you dont include the part you snipped...

I said what he wrote was so outrageously stupid that it would be the same as if I said [insert your quoted part]...

Relax Straffo, get a beer, I'm not sure what kind of opinion you have of me, but I'm not nearly as bad as you seem to think.

I didn't understood this sentence at all and for a change instead of jumping in I prefered asking you if you were serious or not.

pfffffffffffffffffffffffff for once I tryed  to be moderate

Concerning  my opinion about you ...
well ... I'm just an emotional guy so it can change daily
I'm logical only for my work as I can't program computer with emotion ...sadly

[Angus]

Boroda, I guess you really like your country.
QUOTE:
"I never say that Soviet soldiers were angels, but the picture you draw is a complete nonsence. Anyway, Germans could avoid any sufferings that followed the foreign occupation if they didn't attack USSR and other countries."

Recent evidence suggests that the Russians were planning to invade Germany in the Spring of 1942. Hitler just beat them to the party. In fact, the way Russian equipment was stockpiled in Poland just in order to be used the next year helped the Germans in causing even more damage to the Russian war machine. So, it was just a question of time, and who would be the aggressor.
The Russians invaded Poland also, don't forget that. The Russians invaded Finland. Beautiful and cunning politics? Naa, sheer brutal greed and landgrabbing. So in my eyes they did not differ a lot from the Germans.
Now there have been some issues of open or sencored history, and propoganda. Do the russian history books mention the mass murders of thousands of polish officers in Katyn forest (spelling?).
The Polish books under the communist reign did not. However, the Polish people still knew. Same accounts for the Jewish rebellion in Warsaw, where the red army halted its advance while the SS troops cleared out the Jews. Not in the books so much, but the people still know it. There was just so much stuff hidden under the red carpets of russia.

I like so many others here am not so well familiar with the russian lifestyle, neither today, nor before the fall of the iron curtain. However I have many friends that lived on the "other" side, and from them I know that it was very far from the open and "free" societies that the people of western europe take for granted. Communism may have its good points, but it totally lost the race in comparison with the western way.

[grobar]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
It's nice to see, Grobar, that not all russians are blinded by the stuff the communists fed you folks..

I know it is difficult to objectively look at your own country which you're proud of. Hats off to you for that.

Hi-hi-hi - thank God i`m not a russian.

But i think I do the above for my country. Last 10 years historians here write books like crazy, finally free to say what they had to keep only for themselves earlier.

[--am--]

You repeat propagation of the doctor Gebbels. Russian certainly prepared for war. But all their scripts of war began with reflection of attack, instead of from an attack. You can one million time speak, that Russian prepared to attack in 42, but it is all your imagination. The historical fact - Germany have attacked on USSR. Germany carried out policy of destruction of the slavs and Jews.

Concerning Warsaw - you to false. The revolt was begun by the Poles under the order from London. At that moment Russian army with heavy fights and large losses has advanced on 500 km. The Red Army did not have forces, reserve, fuel. But even thus the Red army has passed through the river Vistula and has grasped a small site of ground. On this site of ground the First Polish army was thrown from deep rear. She consist of the Poles, but they have appeared the bad soldiers. German army they were broken also by the Poles ran for Vistula. Despite of a defeat of the Poles and loss of the seized ground behind Vistula,  threw each night on Warsaw of ton of military cargoes and equipments. Threw even cannon and mortirs. But the Poles again have surrendered.

( On all this there are documents. If you as the fool and to think, that they false, read correspondence Stalin and Cherchill, Stalin and Rousvelt)

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hortlund

 Let me just point out this then, the USSR could just as easily have avoided the death of 20 million Soviet soldiers and 20 million civilians in ww2 by just surrendering on June 22nd 1941.

diddlying nazi.

I am seriously thinking about buying a tour to Sweden. To make you several fine scars, like st. Alexander did to your "civilised" jarl Birger in 1240 at the place I had the fortune to be born.

"Kill him every time you meet him". Unfortunately - it's still true.



diddlying nazi.

JFYI: the population of the USSR in 1941 was 150 million people. 9,5 million combat losses, the rest of the 27 million were civilians. 17.5 million civilians killed by your beloved nazi "gentlemen" who never raped anything.

Go diddly yourself.

Gentlemen, I beg your pardon for this kind of language. Simply couldn't help myself.

Again: diddlying nazi.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hortlund

 two of our times most recognized and appraised history writers (Beevor and Ryan).

That bastards must be put under trial and sentenced for open and bold nazi propaganda.

Two lame Goebbels's followers they are. Appraised by nazis like you.

Tolliver and Contable were famous for writing "blond knight of reich" too. It doesn't make them serious historians, even when they repeat Propaganda Ministry radio shows word-to-word.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Boroda


I wonder how long will it take to rewrite history and finaly prove that nazis were good, and fought evil communists to save Western civilisation.

Will you tell me that I must be ashamed looking at my Grandfather's medals?

Actually Boroda, what I'm saying is this:
The evil Nazis invaded the evil Russians. This was good for the less evil English, and the relatively good Americans. In the end, the evil Russians defeated the evil Nazis with the help from the not so evil English and the relatively good Americans. The evil Russians then enslaved most of Eastern europe.

That is my honest opinion. If you disagree, well too bad, suck it up. Nazi Germany and Communist Russia were just as evil, they were just evil in different ways. They both murdered innocent civilians, and if you want to compare bodycount, the Communists "won". They had different victims though, and different ways of butchering their victims. The nazis murdered innocent civlilians, mostly jews, and mostly people from other countries than their own. The communists also murdered innocent civilians, but mostly their own citizens. Both sides committed horrible atrocities against eachother and against eachothers civilians during the war.

Two rotten sides of the same rotten coin.  How you want to feel when you look at your grandfathers medals is totally up to you. You can masturbate over them for all I care.

[Staga]

Originally posted by --am--
I can still remind, that Finland has broken the contract about Aland of islands from 1921. Finland has constructed there military bases and strengthenings having broken thus contract, which she has signed.

Oh yes, Our nuclear-subs are having their port over there just next to our atlantic fleet.

Looks like you don't know a watermelon about those people and Åland itself.
When single small vessel went to the dock the hell did break loose. There are no military bases and actually they don't even have to go to the army like rest of the Finnish men.

[--am--]

I understand, why Hortlund puts a mark of equality between Russian and nazis. Nazis this conventional evil. Sweden supplied all war Germany with ore, technologies and data on actions of the Allies. Actually, despite of an ostensibly neutrality Sweden was on the party of Germany in the Second world war. Therefore to not feel "untermensh" Hortlund tries to prove, that Russian it is same angrily, as well as nazi. This point of view sucks. Because all examples or completely false or same examples are and at the "kind" Englishmen and "kind" Americans.