Author Topic: Ta152, some facts. (Read 1315 times)

straffo · « **Reply #30 on:** May 31, 2002, 04:55:19 AM »

PERK IT !
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oups ...

Wilbus · « **Reply #31 on:** May 31, 2002, 05:46:21 AM »

ROFLMAO!!

Creamo · « **Reply #32 on:** May 31, 2002, 06:00:57 AM »

I doubt the USA produced 1 million P51’s or another million F4U’s, so much I understand that the perk system isn’t hinged solid on actual percentages of aircraft produced, or more pertinent to this discussion, NOT produced.

It would be silly to have a unperked TA152, but what you need to look at is how often it is flown in actual gameplay, over time after introduction to the players.

The Ta152 is a ghost, and I’d like to fly it more often, and better yet, SEE IT and fight it. I find it hard to believe A LOT of the community would not agree.

Otherwise it’s a waste of resources HTC is adamant about protecting, so much to ban players from the BBS, which is outside of the game itself, right?

Do the math. I think that was the initial perk basis, some formula of sorts. Course, we aren't sure.

Leads to lots graphs, which are quite informative as much as I hate the HTC secrecy on gameplay.

Wilbus · « **Reply #33 on:** May 31, 2002, 06:29:08 AM »

I'd like to see it flown more often aswell, maybe even need to go as far as unperking it since MOST would stay in Dora or A5 anyway.

When it comes to all perk planes, except 262 and maybe tempest, they are being flown too little, TA152 specially, and F4u-4 pretty much too.

I don't think the idea was to totally remove them from gameplay but to limit them, they are a little too limited now IMO.

Sachs · « **Reply #34 on:** May 31, 2002, 07:47:04 AM »

Took my 152 up the other day by a CV. I actually had to come down to the deck to fight. Anyway, that nice little tag on it atracted a nice crowd and was able to disrupt the combat for a base capture. Was good for the knights bad for me as everyone and their mother was gunning for my lil perk light I had on. Only was I was able to stay alive was to stay straight keep my E and run. If a La7 came in on me I was toast at 10k (ended sortie landed 4 kills

. IF you think flying the 262 is fun try surviving a low alt fight in a furball in a 152. I think the 152 is one of the worst at acceleration. If this was fixed I would have no problem with its current perk value then. Otherwise it needs to come down. Shouldn't MW-50 below 20k give it some sort of acceleration boost? GM-1 over 20k shouldn't that boost its acceleration as well? That is why I have a hard time believeing they are even modeled on the German fighters. Dora is same way above 300. 350-375 takes a along time to get to.

Wilbus · « **Reply #35 on:** May 31, 2002, 09:08:21 AM »

Right Sachs, I don't think either MW50 or GM1 are modelled, can see that GM1 clearly isn't when you look at AH TA152 chart, speed above 30k isn't as high as it should be, ALOT too slow at 41k where it had its max speed.

It's not one of the worst accelerating planes in the game, it's THE WORST, maybe, MAYBE the C47 beats it.

Kurt Tank described it as acceleration very rapidly, something that it sure doesn't do now.

Squire · « **Reply #36 on:** May 31, 2002, 10:44:11 AM »

Im just chewing the fat boys, nothing wrong with liking the TA152. Its a fascinating piece of machinery no doubt.

Just got me to thinking about late war rides and criteria. More than a few allied uber rides I would exclude too. Im more a "mid war fan" I guess.

And no, im not advocating its removal, its already in the sim. So keep it.

Personally, If I were big on all things LW, I would be polishing a 190D-9, that actually saw a lot of combat and is an excellent fighter. Many LW aces flew it, like Gunther Rall, but I know thats not news.

Later.

K West · « **Reply #37 on:** May 31, 2002, 10:48:38 AM »

"Kurt Tank described it as acceleration very rapidly, something that it sure doesn't do now."

Wasn't the plane he was in, when he ran from two stangs and which lead to that description, basically an unarmed aircraft only fueled for the hop he was taking?

Westy

Turbot · « **Reply #38 on:** May 31, 2002, 01:34:46 PM »

One thing I am not clear on, as I do not read German.

It would seem the German chart with the lines shows performance of 3 different engines. I am not noticing where "WEP" shows up on this chart.

In the speed chart, I am not noticing where it makes note of "WEP" being used or not. (edit: OK I see this now one)

Can someone who can read german clarify this? If these charts do not take WEP into account (as the AH line chart does) Then Our Ta152 is indeed QUITE a good bit slower, from the deck on up, yes?

Turbot · « **Reply #39 on:** May 31, 2002, 01:56:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
Im just chewing the fat boys, nothing wrong with liking the TA152. Its a fascinating piece of machinery no doubt.

Just got me to thinking about late war rides and criteria. More than a few allied uber rides I would exclude too. Im more a "mid war fan" I guess.

And no, im not advocating its removal, its already in the sim. So keep it.

Personally, If I were big on all things LW, I would be polishing a 190D-9, that actually saw a lot of combat and is an excellent fighter. Many LW aces flew it, like Gunther Rall, but I know thats not news.

Later.

The 190 cockpit art isn't to the level of the newer planes either. But I am sure they will get around to it.

Sachs · « **Reply #40 on:** May 31, 2002, 04:32:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by K West
"Kurt Tank described it as acceleration very rapidly, something that it sure doesn't do now."

Wasn't the plane he was in, when he ran from two stangs and which lead to that description, basically an unarmed aircraft only fueled for the hop he was taking?

Westy

Westy the plane Tank was in had guns just no ammo loaded. As he wanted to remain a "civilian". I have done a few tests and even when u unload hte ammo it still is slow as a turtle in acceleration. I wish Pyro would clarify this for us. Or maybe look into the 152 and its acceleration and speeds.

leitwolf · « **Reply #41 on:** May 31, 2002, 09:14:13 PM »

The chart says "Start- und Notleistung" (for all 3 engines) which means *with* WEP. The only thing amiss I see is that the 152 in Aces High lacks a bit of speed above 40k and is a bit faster than it should be at lower altitudes. Since the chart also claims these planes had 3x30mm and 4x20mm (I want! I want!

) and our 152 "only" has 1x30mm and 2x20mm it's perfectly reasonable to see a slightly higher speed. And the 'lack' of speed above 40k.. well... it's enough to run away from buffs which would slaughter you at that alt and your're still holding all the cards against every other fighter who cares to enter your domain. Instead of trying to convice HTC to give our 152 more (useless) speed at hi alt, let's try to get a C-series 152. Better perfomance at lower alt and thus far more usefull for the main

Wilbus · « **Reply #42 on:** June 01, 2002, 02:53:44 AM »

Letwolf, it's not only that it's too slow at 35k+, it's that AH's max speed IS at 35k while the real one had it's max speed at about 41k.

35k was it's maximum boost altitude for the engine, only GM1 brought it up in speeds of 472 mph above 35k, GM1 definatly seems to be either badly modelled, or not modelled at all.

Lie Sachs said, Kurt Tank's Ta 152 was armed but not loaded, I posted the story with Kurt Tanks own words in another thread. The P51's came diving down from higher alt, Kurt Tank engaged the WEP and pulled away.
In AH the Ta152 can't pull away from a fat bumble bee without wings.

Sachs · « **Reply #43 on:** June 01, 2002, 10:51:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus

In AH the Ta152 can't pull away from a fat bumble bee without wings.

One of the funniest things I have read on here in sometime. Still chuckling. Wilbuz I will post that site as well. THought I had it written down and my favorites is cleared shouldn't take long.

leitwolf · « **Reply #44 on:** June 01, 2002, 12:12:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Letwolf, it's not only that it's too slow at 35k+, it's that AH's max speed IS at 35k while the real one had it's max speed at about 41k.

35k was it's maximum boost altitude for the engine, only GM1 brought it up in speeds of 472 mph above 35k, GM1 definatly seems to be either badly modelled, or not modelled at all.

Lie Sachs said, Kurt Tank's Ta 152 was armed but not loaded, I posted the story with Kurt Tanks own words in another thread. The P51's came diving down from higher alt, Kurt Tank engaged the WEP and pulled away.
In AH the Ta152 can't pull away from a fat bumble bee without wings.

Don't get me wrong, i don't say you're wrong on this and I'm grateful for your effort of digging up this speed chart. I wouldn't mind having a top speed at higher alt if that's closer to its real life performance. The only thing i mean is that it doesn't change much in terms of the 152s usability and characteristics in the main or in scenarios and I'd rather have better performance at lower alts (thus a 152-C

) than getting an even bigger advantage up high.
As for the story of Kurt Tanks 152 pulling away from 2 ponies: I've seen this been quoted many times but I've always had my doubts that he would've been able to escape if the ponies *really* wanted to catch him. I think it's an example of real world versus a simulator/game environment. The P-51 pilots see a plane, bounce it, but instead of listening to the moan of their plane in power dives like we do in the sim, throttling back not to overshoot and to keep diving speeds and stress to their airframe low and end up behind a 152 who desperately tries to escape at even speed. Now all three planes engange wep and what do the pony pilots see? the 152 is pulling away. They realize it's a long way home and decide to break off instead of exposing their engine which is supposed to bring them back to a huge stress in a long chase.
And in real life the only thing the 152 needs to "pull away" is exactly the same acceleration as the P-51. Why? It's the same effect as in motor racing: the higher the speed the bigger the distance between two cars even if the distance in time remains the same. I believe that's what the pony pilots have seen and thus decided to break off. This can be reproduced in AH too:
I've done a quick test with the P-51D and the 152: at lo alts both planes need approx. 36seconds to accelerate from 200mph to 300mph. Enough for Kurt Tank to escape in real life, not enough in Aces High for the 152 since the chasing pilot exactly knows his plane *is* faster in the end and it won't break if he's demanding 100% from his ride. Plus there's no scent of injury or even death if he screws up - a huge difference between the sim and real life.

my 0.02 €