So what use IS the 109G2?

[beet1e]

I like to try out new planes. So I've been trying the 109G2. And I need help!

Ever since gaining proficiency on the dark side, I have been a B&Z type of guy. I've never been into all that early war T&B stuff. In AH, I do well with the F4U-1D and P51D - check my scores if you will. What I need for a good B&Z plane are the following criteria:

• Good roll rate.
• Good diving ability - ie. can do a high speed dive without loss of control.
• Adequate elevator authority in those high speed situations, both to adjust aim AND to pull up to avoid terrain!

The 109G2 has none of these attributes, so clearly it's the wrong plane for my fighting style. The 190A5, by the way, fits the bill just fine!

Just today, I did two 109G2 sorties. I was diving on a bogie from on high, but oh! As the speed rises, I cannot control the plane as there is no elevator authority, and crash into terrain. Second sortie, much the same. I was RTB and saw a con chasing a friend. Rolled over to chase, but oh! Speed went to high, and I lost it again. That is not a problem for me in the P51D and F4U-1D.

What's the use of having a high speed piece of kit like the 109G2 if it can't handle its own speed? I hate planes that compress. I know that the 109G2 has an impressive rate of climb, but how do you use all that altitude if you can't dive on a bogie?

In despair, I went back to the P51D. Geez, that has a better roll rate with one aileron than the 109G2 has with both!!! The F4U roll rate is wonderful...

OK, you 109 hotshots. Let's see how you do it. Get up there and shoot some film for me, and email it to me .ZIPped up. I don't want pontificators, I want to see how you guys do it.

[Kaz]

the tiffie is another great BnZ plane handles well at high speed but still takes some getting use to.

[Kweassa]

The 109, as some people put it, is a "hybrid" style of energy fighter. The limited diving speeds and roll rates, relatively less accurate and weak guns make it very difficult for the 109s to engage enemys in a high speed dive in the "traditional BnZ" style.

 However, there are some strengths to the 109, and the best of them all is its naturally talented capacity for climbing.

* The 109, at least before 109G-10 is a decent turner, not able to outturn aircrafts for famous maneuverability, but still turns way better than most USAAF/USN planes.

* It for acceleration helps the pilot a lot in nasty situations.

* Stall characteristics are gentle and well under control.

* Climb rate is very good.

* Handling is pretty good in speed ranges from 250mph~400mph.

 The 109 typically starts off engagement with alt advantage. Unless the pilot's SA dictates that the fight should be pure BnZ, the 109 would usually dive down with E advantage and use it as best as it can to gain advantage of the situation. There is a certain amount of E the 109 can expend, since the climb characteristics allow it to escape in most situations.

 Once you get the hang of this 'limit', you can duke it out with the enemy in the 'knife-fight' style, and escape when your E-limit is up. For instance, if the 109G-2 would fight against a Spit9, it could start off higher than him and use the E advantage to try and follow the Spits turns, try a few roll maneuvers and shove the enemy into E-bleeding defensive maneuvers. If this doesn't work, it can extend, accelerate faster than the Spit9 and start climbing away - provided the pilot kept in mind his E-expending limit.

 I'm sure there are many others who can explain this a lot better than me..

[Furious]

do not use combat trim.


F.

[Angus]

Stay away from nikis and spit9's. The Yak is a danger to you too, but you can either turn with most of the rest, or outrun/outclimb them.
The 109 accelerates and climbs well, and does most things decently at low to medium speed. It has the ability to get very very fast, but not for maneuvers.
Use it right and it is a deadly plane.

[gofaster]

I'm no hotshot (just check my scores) but I've come to the conclusion that the 109-G2s best attribute is its mix of BnZ and turn-fight capabilities, so long as you stay away from Spitfires!

Use the boost to get to 10 or 15k.  The 109s seems to last longer than the boost in other planes, and the motor seems to cool faster, too, so you can boost again when you get ready to engage.  Sometimes you can use the motor's power to keep your nose up longer than the other guy, particularly in a turnfight against one of the USA planes.

When it stalls, it stalls off to the right harder.  In other planes, it seems to be the other way around.  Might be an advantage if you stall to the right and the other fellow on your six stalls off in the other direction.

BnZ is a bit trickier because you have to split-S to lose altitude rather than go straight in like a Mustang.  As you've learned, the elevators tend to stiffen up a lot when the speed increases.  The G-2 seems to gain speed faster than the F-4, so pay closer attention to your dive if you're in a G-2 (and even more so in the G-6).

For gunnery, the cowl guns and nose cannon allow you to set your convergence out as far as 600 and still hit anything between your nose and 600 out, and not have to worry about keeping your wings aligned with the target's wings.

Stay away from Spitfires, Zeroes, and N1K's, as they can out-turn you and outgun you.  If you see a USA plane, go for it!  Typhoons, FWs, and LaGGs are also good pickings if you can catch them.  

Don't use the gun gondolas - too much weight and drag.  The extra gunnery is too high a price.  The only reason to carry them is if you plan on doing bomber intercept or ground attack, and if that's the case then you'd probably want the FW or one of the American planes for their higher speed, lethality and ordinance capacity.  But, do carry a drop tank with 50% gas in your fuselage tank.  Plan on using the drop tank to get to altitude, then drop it when you're ready to engage.  Fight from 50% to 25% gas, then look to get out, depending on how far you are from your base.  Too many times I've died from fuel starvation, but I've never run out of ammo (well, maybe cannon rounds).

[humble]

It's really pretty simple, the 109 isn't a B&Z plane. It's an E-fighter, it's primary stength lies in it's ability to climb fast and accelerate quickly. You sound like your carrying to much E into the fight...throttle back as you hit compressability. You can also look at diving for the under position form the 7 or 5 and zooming from below...often you can carry 550+ down and level under con. As the speed bleeds down you'll regain control for the shot. If the con see you he still has to evade hard...I'd suggest going vertical and coming off gas all the way...you'll still have plenty of E/alt to control fight but hopefully you can stay within 2500 ft or less on the zoom...then you can reengage without worrying about building up to much speed...the key is being positive E not being so fast you cant control your plane.

[Apar]

If you dive on somebody or dive away from a con and get into compression with the 109g2, use manual elevator trim to pull nose gently up (to avoid crashing). It also helps to use your throttle while flying it!!! Cut throttle in a dive and watch your speed!!!

[steely07]

Agree with all of the above,good points Gent's..personally i love the G2,it is my fav 109 for general use,i think the best thing about it is the "knife fight" factor,you can really surprise a pilot who has ducked the boom part of your BnZ,most people don't expect a 109 to turn with them,by chopping throttle and pulling into him hard,be aware of your E state,but i have killed a lot of people who assumed i was going back up and didn't keep 6 checked

[beet1e]

Thanks for all the help and advice, guys. I'm realising that the 109xx is not my sort of plane, and does not suit my fighting style. I might be able to make the flying part of it work, but as for fumbling to the keyboard to find the key to adjust trim, well that's something I want to avoid. The armament of the 109G2 is a paltry 150 cannon shells, and a load of useless MG. The 190A5 has 620 cannon shells - more than four times as much!

I'm getting a good k/d in the 190A5 and the P51D (around 6:1 in the P51D), and I think that's where my focus will be from now on. Still, it helps to know the strengths of a plane to know how to avoid becoming a victim.

[beet1e]

You didn't tell me about those Gondola guns! I put those in the load out and now I have more fire power. So I've been up in the G2 and got 15 kills, 4 deaths - at least one of those deaths was when fiting a buff, and another was with a Spitfire - he had more E than I thought

Yes I can see some of the attributes that you guys talked about - the acceleration, the E retention, the climbing ability... Unfortunately the handling is not as crisp as I need it to be - The P51D and F4U-1D have very crisp handling. The 109 wallows. By the way, as a B&Zer, I'm not interested in how well a plane turns, as turns are for wimps and N1K drivers

I think the best role for the 109 is those high altitude air to air combats, whereas I am more of a jabo man. I'm interested in the war, not the individual skirmishes that form part of that war.

OK, the 109G2 is good, but I don't think I'd ever pick it as l'aeronef du jour. It might be OK to go up in it, and look for a few cons to kill - that's how I got all my kills. But when I've got a job to do, I'll have to choose something else.

Thanks again for all your help.

[TMASTadon]

Someone mentioned it an earlier reply but after reading your last reply I thought I'd make the suggestion....give the Typhoon a try. Its fast, tough and well armed with 4 Hispanos. It will also carry rockets or 2 1000lbs if you like Jabo work and its toughness is nice here as well. Its roll rate will dissapoint you but from reading your post I think you'll find the Typhoon to be a lot of what you're looking for.

[Hristo]

109g-2 is the G-10 of its time era. It is a typical 109. Not a turner, not a BnZer. E fight all the way.

the most important skills you have to have to fly it:

- ability to judge E states
Due to the nature this plane fights best, you will be fairly slow an top of your typical maneuvers. You just don't want anyone dive on you while you perform rope-a-dope. Of course, if you misjudge E state of your pursuer, even worse.

-usage of trim
This arena is a dangerous place and you want to be fast. If you are slow, you need to accelerate quickly. Trims are essential for this (except engine, of course). You need to recover from high speed dives - only trim helps you. While roping enemy, you againneed to be perfectly trimmed - the difference between ball in the middle and ball slipping to side WILL be the difference between roping someone or getting nailed on top of your loop.

-gunnery
You need it, you just don't get much guns and ammo.

-fuel
take off with 100% and DT. Burn internal tank first, to 60-75%. Switch to DT and use it until empty. Switch to internal again .

-gondolas
They can be helpful, but IMO they just make you a Fw wannabe. Use Fw instead.

Again, this plane belongs to 1942 planeset. By taking it into 1944 arena, you are limiting your chances.

[beet1e]

Hristo, that's interesting. But how do I use trim the way I should? I have a MSW Prec Pro stick (featured), and use the round thumb operated buttons for trim on angle, and trim on speed. With the planes I fly, that's the only trim control I need. If using manual trim, does this mean I'd have to fumble for keys I & K on the keyboard? I suppose I could set up a dedicated 109G2 .SW4 profile, and use some of the base buttons.  What stick do you have?

[Starbird]

When I had a ms ff I used the base buttons for aileron and elevator trim.

The autopilot buttons I kept on the keyboard. They're not as important in combat situations, so when you're climbing or cruising around you can look down and hit the keys you want.

Trim on the otherhand you dont want to be fumbling around with in the middle of a fight, so having their buttons on the stick worked better. I didn't use rudder trim much until I got a ch setup and had extra buttons to set it up.