Author Topic: D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA (Read 3469 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #210 on:** January 06, 2002, 11:47:00 PM »

Karnak the mosquito seems faster to me than the Bf109G6. I know I cant catch them at regular MA alts.

Karnak · « **Reply #211 on:** January 07, 2002, 12:30:00 AM »

Heh. That's funny, because I can't outrun G-6s at MA alts.

Eye of the beholder I guess.

Naudet · « **Reply #212 on:** January 08, 2002, 01:52:00 AM »

Puh i read the whole long thread.

And sry to say Mandoble, i dont see why the Spit should be perked.
Even in the numbers it is used now, it has no real impact on the MA. The CHOG on the other hand had, why? Cause it was an extremly well suited all-round killer. It could do everything, and with this weight missing, could evade everything.
But a spit has not such influence.

And i must agree with all those who said the D9 keeps you alive longer. I have now worked for 5-6 month on my D9 style, and i can admit that the times were i was killed have only two reasons, suprise or more often a fault on my side, due to greed

.

And surprise is for me, not being killed by someone i never saw, surprise is when somoone mentioned to move into a position from which he has all the advantages. And even in this cases i was about 50% of the time able to get away.
More often i am killed by my own faults, this is taking stupid HOs, target fixation or whatever.

And i strongly counter your point, that there is no surprise in the MA. About 75% of my kills are due to surprise. All you need is good SA and timing, than it really works great.

And finally there seems to be nothing wrong with the D9 guns execpt you set convergence to 300. I have changed convergence to 375 2 month back, and suddenly i had incredible accurate fire (for a LW plane

), now i regulary score up to 450 yrds in deflection shots.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #213 on:** January 08, 2002, 07:09:00 AM »

Naudet, your point of view is perfectly respetable, but mine is somewhat different.
For me, K/D ratio is secondary while K/T is primary.

And while you can have some success in surprise attacks, our MA configuration will minimize at maximun the chances of being surprised. In my case, less than 25% of the victims are due to surprise. And that 25% is mainly achieved nearby friendly bases where there are no red dots for the con on the map.

IMO, more than 90% of spits I encounter are used in a very poor way. Some people think spits are easy kills and I disagree, their pilots are easy kills whatever they fly. But the plane itself is a formidable opponent. It is the perfect ride for our furballing MA, but, if you want, it is also an impressive B&Zoomer, excelent diving characteristics, one of the best (if not the best) zoom climber, good control at hi speeds, little E loose whatever you do, excelent hi alt performance and the best guns in AH. The top speed will help you to get quicker to the hunting area, but diving, zoom climbing and guns are the factors that will give you the victims in your B&Z moves.

Flying D9, when I see a higher 190, specially a D9, I use to ignore it. When I see a higher spit the reaction is very different.

lazs1 · « **Reply #214 on:** January 08, 2002, 08:30:00 AM »

mandoble... If K/T is what you are most concerned about then why the hell are you even bothering with the D9??? In order for the D9 to have a good K/T it would have to turn a whole lot better.. Course, then it wouldn't roll and the top speed would be down but... If you wanna fight then fly a real fighter man!!

Look, if you want a high K/T (and i can understand that) then you can't fly 51's or D9's or even 47's (unless your a BK).

There are two sims in the MA and they don't meet that often. There is the early/mid war set with their high K/T and high F/T (fun/time) ratio and the sky accountants. You chose the head sky accountant plane and are now whining cause it isn't fun.

You want to be able to pick your fight, turn with anyone and then get away with untouchable speed and acceleration.

Spits.. they are dangerous but I ike seeing em and niks a lot more than boring D9's and 51's.. Spits are not that invincible even when flown by the very best. I don't feel at all at a diadvantage in my -1 against say leviathn in a spit. it is a fun fight. I believe he feels the same. Fighting a D9 on the other hand is simply boring. boring for both players in most cases.. Hence... their lack of use.

And that is as it should be.
lazs

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #215 on:** January 08, 2002, 08:46:00 AM »

Sorry lazs, but it seems you have not understood me. I'm not talking about D9 focusing into my own experience. I have enough flight hours in this bird to dogfight the spits, n1k2s or anyother plane in our planset, and achieve an average K/T in it (actually 0.0023, same as the previous tour).
For me, D9 is anything but a boring plane. Of course you would tell me that I'm using this bird in a not "formal" way, and I agree.
What I say is that, for me, K/T and K/S are the only important factors, and based on this, I disagree with the idea that D9 is a monster.

lazs1 · « **Reply #216 on:** January 08, 2002, 02:09:00 PM »

Ok.. so tell me. What are you trying to say? It would appear that you are getting just as good a K/T as any of the spits or niks. It would also make sense that with your K/D you are doing way better than the average Spit pilot and as well as some of the best.. so what's your beef?

The plane is too good? If it is killing rapidly and surviving then you are having fun and surviving no? Why do Spits even bother you? I really doubt that you would do any better in a Spit. Are you saying that you are doing poorly against Spits compared to other planes? Lags are my nemisis.
lazs

Hristo · « **Reply #217 on:** January 09, 2002, 05:07:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
...There is the early/mid war set with their high K/T and high F/T (fun/time) ratio and the sky accountants. You chose the head sky accountant plane and are now whining cause it isn't fun.

LOL, never knew I am flying an accountant. Good one

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #218 on:** January 09, 2002, 05:28:00 AM »

lazs, I'm neither talking about me, nor anyother people with a lot of hours in a determinate plane. I'm also not talking about newbies. I'm talking about what these planes are for the average pilots. For most of these people, Spit is far superior than D9. And these people are the majority in our MA. A plane is not a monster just because someone with a lot of experience hours in it is able to score a hi K/T, K/S and even a hi K/D.

lazs1 · « **Reply #219 on:** January 09, 2002, 08:18:00 AM »

I don't really know how who the "average" player is... I have asked for 'average stats' to be published every tour but...

It wouold seem that the stats don't bear out what you are saying. I do ok in the -1a but the plane itself doesn't do well in the arena. I suppose the "average" person is what is reflected in the stats. If that is the case then the D9 is a much better choice for anyone than the Spit... I believe that most people leave the D9 alone because it is boring... even for a LW plane.
lazs

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #220 on:** January 09, 2002, 09:47:00 AM »

What stats don't bear out what I'm saying? K/T? K/S? Because K/D alone, for me, means nothing. I'm sure that K/T stat per plane, if someday exist, will bear out just what I'm saying.
K/T seems to be for you, as for me, the main stat in AH. Well, based on that do you think Spit is inferior ot D9?

Kieran · « **Reply #221 on:** January 09, 2002, 10:00:00 AM »

Jumping back in with that comment, do you think K/T is the only thing worthy of noting? Is that the sole basis for justifying limiting a plane you dislike? I'm sorry Mandoble, I respect your ability as a pilot but I believe you are waaaaaaay out there on this issue. You are never going to see both a 1940 and a 1942 aircraft perked- not at any price, and you simply shouldn't.

Let go of the obsession. I could even empathize with you if we saw nothing but, "Damn, the Spit is too tough!" on the BBS every day (ok, so maybe I would laugh at that), but the fact is we don't. The Spit is a good all-around aircraft, no doubt, but it isn't the best at anything- not even the guns (it is outgunned by several aircraft).

Your argument of "since we are talking MA it shouldn't matter what year the plane is, only its usage" is hollow too, because there is always going to be a #1 used plane, like it or not. You can't perk them all, my friend. Better to have a #1 plane that is completely beatable in about every way as opposed to something to really fear, say, 262's for free? Or are you going to be silly enough to suggest the Spit is more dangerous than the 262 because the Spit has a higher K/T?

Apache · « **Reply #222 on:** January 09, 2002, 10:09:00 AM »

I've asked this question before & never gotten an answer. When does the clock start? If it is time online & not time in flight, then current k/t is useless, therefore hardly an accurate measure of performance.

Erlkonig · « **Reply #223 on:** January 09, 2002, 11:15:00 AM »

Quote

I've asked this question before & never gotten an answer. When does the clock start? If it is time online & not time in flight, then current k/t is useless, therefore hardly an accurate measure of performance.

I'll try to help you out. Take a look at your stats for Tour 23.

Total time in fighters: 37:51:54
Total time in fighters (s): 136314
Total kills in fighters: 203
Kills / Time (s) = 0.001489208738647534369177047 11181537

Round up the ten-thousandths, and you get .0015, as it shows up in the stats. Congradulations, I believe this places you in the coveted "sky accountant" category.

Oh, the irony...

To keep this post slightly on topic - I think the idea that any Spit we have now will ever need to be perked is rediculous.

[edit: forgot a '3']

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Erlkonig ]

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #224 on:** January 09, 2002, 11:26:00 AM »

Apache, agree partially with you. There are no statistic that gives us a definitive idea of how dangerous a plane is. IMO, K/D gives you only an idea of how a pilot drives its plane (safety mode or not), but K/T is a much compensated factor, it is telling to you, at least, that killing with that plane is easy, and that, obviously, means that that plane is dangerous.

Kieran, agree, 262 is far more dangerous than any spit. And I'm sure that, if not perked, it would be one of the most used fighters.

In the other hand, D9 is not perked and is not popular. Why? Because average pilots will get little success in it. And due average pilots are the "mass" of our population, that means than D9, in our MA, is less dangerous than a Spit. That "mass" is far more successful flying spits.