Author Topic: D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA (Read 3470 times)

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #165 on:** January 04, 2002, 07:03:00 AM »

Disagree Urchin, longer nose doesnt hide the target for more time.
From the cockpit you are ubable to see the end point of the 190 nose, no matter if you are in A8/F8/A5 or D9, unless you put your head in an elevated pos. In this case, the advantage is for the D9 due its "bubble" canopy.
I'll do some convergence tests, but the fact is that I have enormous problems even shooting at 250 yards static targets if I use the center of the sight as reference. I've failed even 300 yards buffs, I see all the bullets passing below, avobe, etc, but not hitting. In fact I dont use the sight at all with D9.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #166 on:** January 04, 2002, 07:14:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak:
If the Spit IX gets 20% of the kills in a tour I'll be right beside you asking for it to be perked. But we both know that isn't going to happen.

Well, actually Spit (IX + V) have near 20% of kills. But counting the kills is a mistake, this doesnt demostrate the plane usage, you should counter the deaths. 1 death = 1 plane used.

Rude · « **Reply #167 on:** January 04, 2002, 08:18:00 AM »

What convergence setting are you using Man?

Karnak · « **Reply #168 on:** January 04, 2002, 09:09:00 AM »

MANDOBLE,

But the Spit IX's + the Spit V's kills does not equal the Spit IX's kills. Those are two separate aircraft, or are you going to start saying the Spit V should be perked?

Tour 23 stats for the Spits IX and V:

The Spitfire Mk IX has 28770 kills and has been killed 29391 times. 7.84% of total kills. 8.02% of total deaths.

The Spitfire Mk Vb has 17540 kills and has been killed 15569 times. 4.78% of total kills. 4.25% of total deaths.

Combined they have 12.62% of the total kills and 12.27% of the total deaths. Both of those are still well shy of 20%.

If we add the Seafire in:

The SeaFire Mk IIc has 7132 kills and has been killed 8336 times. 1.95% of total kills. 2.27% of total deaths.

All Spitfire varients combine for 14.57% of the total kills and 14.54% of the total deaths. That is still more than 5% shy of 20% for both stats, and we've had to lump all Spits in as one aircraft.

Seeker · « **Reply #169 on:** January 04, 2002, 09:13:00 AM »

Karnak, could you do a general stat and lump all Spits, all hogs, all Wulf and all 190's in the same way?

Perk the 190!

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #170 on:** January 04, 2002, 09:34:00 AM »

Rude, I've tried 250, 350 and now 600 for Mgs and guns.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #171 on:** January 04, 2002, 09:57:00 AM »

Karnak, check Djvu page http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Tour23/Tour23.htm

Counting only kills and not deaths:
SpitIX 11.42%
SpitV 7.18%
Seafire 2.71%

Three Spit variants combined: 21.31% of kills.

If we compare with LW contingent...

Four 190 variants combined: 7.83% of kills.
Four 109 variants combined: 6.32% of kills (less than the % of SpitV alone).

If we count the deaths instead the kills (total deaths 199688):

All Spits: 21.28%
All 190: 6.37%
All 109: 6.08%

The conclusion: I'm really bored of seeing spits.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #172 on:** January 04, 2002, 10:15:00 AM »

I tend to believe someone (Urchin) who has done tests using utlities given to us to figure out if something is wrong with the guns over someone (Mandoble) who gives me 2nd hand information about what he has seen without actually performing a test.
-SW

Manxer · « **Reply #173 on:** January 04, 2002, 11:19:00 AM »

What would really bring new life to this thread, is if HT added the Spit XIV. The fur would just be flying in here.

Karnak · « **Reply #174 on:** January 04, 2002, 02:04:00 PM »

MANDOBLE,

DejaVu's stats are only fighter vs. fighter. Mine are fighter vs. everything.

For MA performance we need to look at the whole package, since fighter vs. fighter combat is actually not the whole deal. Especially when you consider that the Spits aren't very good at the escort / interception / jabo types of jobs.

If you're going to argue that the Spit is too good in the wide context of the MA don't try to then go and use its narrow fighter vs. fighter numbers to prove that.

You also didn't answer my question about the Spit V. Do you now think that too should be perked? Your recent statements seem to indicate that you consider all Spits to be one and the same.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #175 on:** January 04, 2002, 02:12:00 PM »

One Hundred and Seventy-Five

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #176 on:** January 04, 2002, 02:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
The conclusion: I'm really bored of seeing spits.

My conclusion: Deal with it and quit complaining.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Apache · « **Reply #177 on:** January 04, 2002, 02:22:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Karnak, check Djvu page http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Tour23/Tour23.htm

Counting only kills and not deaths:
SpitIX 11.42%
SpitV 7.18%
Seafire 2.71%

Three Spit variants combined: 21.31% of kills.

If we compare with LW contingent...

Four 190 variants combined: 7.83% of kills.
Four 109 variants combined: 6.32% of kills (less than the % of SpitV alone).

If we count the deaths instead the kills (total deaths 199688):

All Spits: 21.28%
All 190: 6.37%
All 109: 6.08%

The conclusion: I'm really bored of seeing spits.

The conclusion is more folks fly the spits and die in them than they do in the LW a/c you listed. Most newbies gravitate to an easy aircraft to fly but that isn't to say that said aircraft is uber, which it is not by a long shot.

Your solution is to make it unavailable to an apparent large portion of the players. What is your reason again? You're tired of seeing them? My question to you is, what a/c are you going to get tired of next, i.e., what a/c is next in line?

Karnak · « **Reply #178 on:** January 04, 2002, 03:02:00 PM »

MANDOBLE,

Here are the fighter versus everything totals for the Spits, 109s and 190s in Tour 23:

All Spitfire varients combine for 14.57% of the total kills and 14.54% of the total deaths.

All 109 varients combine for 4.68% of the total kills and 4.23% of the total deaths.

All 190 varients combine for 5.92% of the total kills and 4.66% of the total deaths.

It is undeniable that Spits are much more prolific in the MA. Nobody here has denied that. However, your guideline seems to be how it does in relation to 109s and 190s. Is your goal to force people into those aircraft by leaving no other options?

I don't see a proplem with any of the numbers you or I have posted. None of them indicate to me that anything needs perking.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #179 on:** January 04, 2002, 07:57:00 PM »

Do we want a rich arena or a monotone one?
Are these spit drivers giving a chance to other planes or will they live forever behind their UBER hispanos? Have they ever tried 109F? C205? F6F? all of them excelent turners. Perking the spit will not make this plane unavailable to the people. 1 perk point? 2 perks? just enough to regulate the population. IMO, perks should help us to have plane-rich arena, and a more dynamic perking system would be desirable. Why do you want your perks if you have no planes to use them? 262? too expensive. Ta152? no idea why its perked? Tempest? good ride but why to use it having the La7? Actually there is almost no reason to use your perks, in fact, perk planes are almost unused.