Serious question

[Tac]

"Or are you saying all of the different spits are really just one plane?"

It says "spit" is what im saying. Thats why im using all EXCEPT Spit14 stats in that. And when you see 67038 deaths.. you can count those as 67038 spits that upped and died.. and this aint counting those that rtb'd (or ditched?) . What other plane in the MA can claim so many sorties? Even when you add the 109 models or the 190s they dont get to half of that. Heck, even adding the 190 AND the 109s together you see the spits upped 20,000+ times more (109+190=41,800 something).

"Perking the Spit because it is the most used is rediculous"

I said to perk ALL planes with an early war model. This includes spits as well as any other plane. Its just one thing I think would help move along the perk market and allow the use of other planes (would you up a spit 1 and fly 2 sectors to face a furball of spitIX's and la7's all the time?).

"you include their stats from every other vehicle"

So you saying that vehicles dont count? So if I up an flaktank and get strafed by 4 spitfires.. and I shoot them all down, does that mean those 4 spitfires never flew in the MA?

[Karnak]

So Tac, you'd force Spit and 109 fans to fly 1940 versions against 1943 Fw190s, La-5FNs, Mosquitoes, F4Us, C.205s, Yak-9s, P-51Bs and 1944 P-38Ls, P-47Ds, A6M5s, Ki-61s, Typhoons,  F6F-5s and N1K2s?

That doesn't sound very balanced, but it does sound rather arcade like.  "If your favorite aircraft entered service early in the war, tough, you have to fly the original against things designed to outdo the latter versions of your aircraft?"

Seems that would cause a rather rapid flight of players from the game.

Perking by year would make much more sense, then at least you'd have things flying with other things from the same rough tech period.


I see that you are talking about the icon "Spit" being too common and you don't care which it is.  Simple fix would be to relabel them "Spit9", "Spit5", "Spit1" and "Sea2".  Do that and presto, no more monolithic like grouping of icons that all read "Spit".



Wotan,

Yes, I've had my outbursts.  There is certainly no denying that.

I would very much like to see a post with me distorting stats though.  To the best of my knowlege I have never done that.  I always try to use real data.

[scspook]

Perk the Chutes!

[Urchin]

Actually... I rather like the 'monolithic' groupings of spit, 109,190.  It gives the player who chooses to fly an earlier varient the advantage of his opponent fighting him the 'wrong' way at first.  

For instance-  Say I am flying a Spit IX, and I see a Spit V.  What will I do?  Not turn with it, thats for damn sure.  I might BnZ, might E-fight it, but the Spit V has very little chance to win the fight because I KNOW it is a Spit V.  

Now lets assume I'm in an La7.  I see a 109.  I assume this is a 109G-10 because they are the most common ones.  Oh, no problem I say, I can kick this planes ass!  So a little turnight comes into being because I know my plane will out-turn a 109G-10.  But.. whats this?  The whoopee 109 whipped around so fast it looked like a greyish BLUR!  SURPRISE!!!  It was 109F4, and I just died because I underestimated its turning ability.  Had I known it was an F4 from the start, I would have never turned with it.  

I think having the same tags for the earlier versions as are on the later versions is a GOOD THING .  Course that's just my opinion.

[Tac]

"Perking by year would make much more sense, then at least you'd have things flying with other things from the same rough tech period."

That is another alternative. But its almost the same thing as what I said.. after all, isn't perking by year mean the 1938 planes would be unperked and any after perked? Not much different from giving the earliest model free and the rest perked (cheeeaply). And perking by year would make the 190 be perked from the very start, without it having a "free" model since it came out in 1942.

The way I see it, a spit 1 has a good chance of fighting off a 190A5, but the A5 wont be able to completely and absolutely overwhelm the spit 1 in the same way a 152 or D9 would. The spit 1 would have much better perk gaining ability than the A5 because it is in fact, an older ride. And hey, at 1->3 perks to fly the other, later models, what's the problem? Its like using perks to create a semi-rolling planeset, the more you use the late war planes the less perks you'll have, run out of perks then get more with cheaper or free rides.

I had 3600 perks stored and last tour I decided to enjoy them, flying 262s on strafing runs, 152's on buff intercepts, etc. Now I got 1200 perks.. by the end of this tour I may have ran out, and this is flying mainly the almost untouchable 262. Once I burn my remaining 6 262 rides I'll have to go back to my "free" ride and get more. Now, compare getting 200 perks to getting 4 perks max to get a late war plane in the Rolling Perk Set (TM! ), you may notice isnt exactly a hardship

[Karnak]

Urchin,

Like you I would like the icons to prvide as little info as possible, that goes for perk planes too..

Hell, I'd rather the icons simply used the Rook, Knight or Bishop symbol from D6.0 until about D3.0 after which the basic plane name would be attached.  I'd like the range display to be replaced by a system that indicated closure, such as this:

Spit
+++

means that you are gaining very rapidly on some sort of Spitfire, Ia to XIVc.

F4U
++

means that you are gaining at a good rate on some sort of F4U

110
+

means that you are slowly gaining on a Bf110 version

MOSS
=

means that you are moving at close to the same speed as a Mosquito of some type.  You may be gaining very slowly or he may be extending very slowly

P51
-

means that a P-51 is slowly extending away from you

190
--

means that a 190, from A-5 to 152H-1, is extending from you at a good clip

TYPH
---

means that a Typhoon or Tempest is extending very rapidly from you


That's the icon system I'd like anyways.

Tac,

I don't know, but I don't think the Spit I has a snowballs chance in hell against an Fw190A-5.  The Spit IX vs 190A-5 is vastly more balanced and more interesting for the participants.

Personlly if I were to perk by year (and I wouldn't if I were running a business like HTC is) I wouldn't use 1938 or 1940 as the base year, I'd use 1943 as the highest free year.  I think 1943 offers the most interesting balance and fights.  The super fighters that render dive-bombers obsolete and easily chase down and kill multi-role aircraft like the Bf110G-2, Me410 and Mosquito haven't shown up yet, heavy bombers are readily available as are mediums and the fighters are very good, but not stupifying.

[Czpetr]

Mandoble, don`t take me wrong (6.5.). I didn`t criticise your style, just commented what I saw. I consider boom´n´zoom as normal method of killing Spits with 190s, in most circumstances even the only method how to kill Spit. And my question was, how do you imagine the interesting fight against Spit with FW190, avoiding turning and other things that Spit can do well and you don`t like them?  Aren`t you bored rather with your plane because the plane you prefer cannot have "interesting" fight with Spit because of its performance? Than should be more fair to change the plane you fly to something more equal to Spit (and you will have a lot of interesting fights against Spits ) than force people to fly something other than they like. Don`t you think?

czpetr

[Fester']

It's funny, I work all day with a bunch of people I have very little in common with.  I am nice and cordial and polite.  And yet feel compelled to argue with those in here who I share a common passion with over trivial differences in perception.

Sounds about right to me

[Thunder]

Fortunately for me when I'm flying it's my choice so "BITE ME!"



Thunder

[MANDOBLE]

Czpetr, my flying style, as probably yours, depends on what the other pilot do and how many enemies are nearby, not just what the other pilot fly. SpitIX is one of the best E fighters we have, but 90% of spits pilots simply keep turning horizontally in a dime and spraying while they turn, or just pointing nose up in and keep spraying till they score one or two hispano hits at 700 ayard and almost stalled. This seems to be inherent to the spirit of most spit pilots, probably cause most of them are "greens" and the plane is suitable to do that kind of moves. Fighting against this over'n over (cause they are everywhere everytime) is boring for me, yep.

A side note: it is funny to see how people insulting some ones two day ago cause they want to perk something are now accepting some kind of perk system for the entire planeset and discussing about the perks for each plane, very coherent.

Djvu, % of kills alone doesnt mean % of usage:

One 109 vs 3 spits resulting in the 109 dead and one spit dead. Your conclussion statistically would be that 109 has same usage as spit, 1/1.

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

Who's excepting perks for the whole planeset?

I was merely speaking hypothetically.  That's why I included the disclaimer "and I wouldn't if I were running a business like HTC is".

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
One 109 vs 3 spits resulting in the 109 dead and one spit dead. Your conclussion statistically would be that 109 has same usage as spit, 1/1.

Wait, weren't you the one who, awhile back, hyperbollicy stated that Spits allow any low-talent person to dive into a furball and obtain three kills before dying?

It seems that by that logic, the kill stats overestimate actual Spitfire use by three times.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

It seems that by that logic, the kill stats overestimate actual Spitfire use by three times.

-- Todd/Leviathn

By 9 times.  He's gone from one spit can get 3 kills to it takes 3 spits to get 1 kill.

AKDejaVu

[Rude]

STOP THE INSANITY!!!!

[Toad]

PUSH THE BUTTON DALE!