Author Topic: Pongo - Equalized Numbers Discussion (Read 1908 times)

Toad · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2002, 05:45:37 PM »

Mr. Ripley, did you ever meet anyone who sat down at a chessboard and said "Let's go for the stalemate, eh?" No, they sit down to play for the win.

Stalemates do happen, of course. Sort of like when we spend 6 or 7 days stuck on the Mindinao map. Everyone always seems to love it when that happens, don't they? Nothing but "oh, goody! another day on Mindinao!" A good side-balancing "force-you-to-fly-the-way-I-think-you-should-fly" mechanism could extend everyone's enjoyment there, don't you think?

But I digress.

Unfortunately, Mr. Ripley, AH was NEVER set up to start from an "equal" opening position. It never offered the assurance of an equal number of characters nor an equal chance of winning for any of the sides.

Rather, it was set up as a constantly changing, fluid environment where the fortunes of a "country" might ebb and flow depending on hour of the day, day of the week, success or failure of that country's attempts to dominate and whether or not the Superbowl was on. Amongst other random numerous factors, of course.

Perhaps this is not an environment in which you can be comfortable. It may not be possible for you to accept the design of the game as a fluid environment as the developer's intended design.

As Rude pointed out, some people can deal with adversity and some people can't.

Despite your somewhat constant, strident cries that the Bishops are "always" way ahead on numbers, the vast majority of the player base and the vast majority of those who read this BBS know that your position is simply incorrect. They know that every country has it's "day" and than no one country continually has an overwhelming numerical advantage. In short, every AH player deals with adversity on a routine basis. Some can handle it, some can't.

If you are looking for a "equal" starting position and a place where "neither side holds unfair advantage and the game result gets determined by the skill of the player, not the handicap." may I suggest the various Scenario type playing opportunities that AH offers? I must advise you, however, that there are often arguments over whether or not the Scenario set-ups have equal starting positions without unfair advantage.

Still, you are far more likely to find what you are apparently seeking in a Scenario environment.

Or perhaps you should try the Dueling Arena. There you can match aircraft and fuel loads and duel 1 V 1. In the DA, it's as close to certain as you can get that the "result gets determined by the skill of the player, not the handicap."

So you can see that AH does offer options that will give you what you apparently desire so ardently.

You most certainly won't find it in a persistent 24/7 unlimited log in/log out Main Arena IMO.

In your honor I am going to start taking a screen shot of the Roster when I log in and log out each time I intend to play for more than an hour.

I'll save those and perhaps caption them in the event any country got reset while I was on. Then the next time you decide to go on a "Bishops" rant, I'll post the series. Might provide a bit of objectivity.

And I would like to thank you for bringing your invective, slurs and general distemper to this thread. After you posted your opinion of my character in the other thread, it provides a revealing example, I believe, of your character.

Ta-ta, old chum!

Tac · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2002, 06:15:47 PM »

I know!

How about there's only ONE country and we play Civil War?

Or alternatively, all bases are neutral and squads with 10+ members get a field assigned to them at random at the start, those not in squad can "move" to that field and fly out of it as "guests". Then we can play "War of the Little Kingdoms" hehehe.

BigGun · « **Reply #17 on:** June 06, 2002, 06:32:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SOB
Point 5: Shut up and fly (slowly, level, and in front of my guns)

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2002, 01:25:08 AM »

Mr. Ripley, did you ever meet anyone who sat down at a chessboard and said "Let's go for the stalemate, eh?" No, they sit down to play for the win.

Did you ever meet a person who put a double number of characters on his side to ensure he wins?

Unfortunately, Mr. Ripley, AH was NEVER set up to start from an "equal" opening position. It never offered the assurance of an equal number of characters nor an equal chance of winning for any of the sides.

I agree, but when things go out of hand they go out of hand.

As Rude pointed out, some people can deal with adversity and some people can't.

I flew the majority of time at 2:1 disadvantage, fought 10:1 on some occasions and came out with a better than 3:1 k/d ratio. It just gets frustrating in the long run to always see the next enemy line up after the other, not even a chance to win the strat part. Toad do you think its a good setup gameplay wise to let the other side grow over double in size disabling the others of any remote chance of winning? It's not a competition anymore, it's not strat anymore it's one sided milkrun missions and gangbang. The conspiracy theory of yours (two smaller on one bigger) practically never works because people go to path of least resistance. That means both the bigger countries hit the smallest one for easy captures.

may I suggest the various Scenario type playing opportunities that AH offers?

You may suggest but I'd like to play more than once a week in a reasonable setup. Probably as I said H2H is a better solution. It's for free too.

Or perhaps you should try the Dueling Arena. There you can match aircraft and fuel loads and duel 1 V 1. In the DA, it's as close to certain as you can get that the "result gets determined by the skill of the player, not the handicap."

Been there, done that.. DA is not an arena with constant fights as you know.

In your honor I am going to start taking a screen shot of the Roster when I log in and log out each time I intend to play for more than an hour.

I'd like that, thanks. However as you have said yourself, the problem is not occuring during your timezone, only mine. I hear stories how rooks actually outnumber bish sometimes (not by 2:1 of course) and win resets. You have to realise that the different timezones are like different arenas, a problem in other may not be a problem for you. It's no use to the other zone if the other side has the situation reversed - they never get to play there.

And I would like to thank you for bringing your invective, slurs and general distemper to this thread. After you posted your opinion of my character in the other thread, it provides a revealing example, I believe, of your character.

Now this discussion is already much better, you have softened your views a little (probably because you see I damn well am not alone with this opinnion) and left out the

after every remark. WTG!

Edit: I logged on 9AM local time and it seems the imbalance switched from bish to knight, only this time knights didn't have more players than the two others combined - this was the setup which repeated itself for weeks and weeks.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2002, 01:35:50 AM »

Today at 9AM.

Hristo · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2002, 10:35:45 AM »

Hmm, the Rooks have the most crowded fields !

fffreeze220 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2002, 10:46:05 AM »

lololol we knights with the numbers ????
What the hell did i miss some fun in the last week or did Photo shop his work:D

Toad · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2002, 11:03:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I agree, but when things go out of hand they go out of hand.

That is part of a 24/7 perisistent world-wide arena. It is the "nature of the beast". As it was in AW DOS, WB, FA and here as well. There were no artificial "balancing" mechanisms in those games either IIRC.

Given what has been suggested on this BBS so far, I seriously doubt any "balancing" mechanism will ever be included. Simply because they would cause more problems than they would solve.

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Toad do you think its a good setup gameplay wise to let the other side grow over double in size disabling the others of any remote chance of winning?

Actually, I (along with probably every other AH player) have experienced the numerous trials and tribulations you mention in this portion. However, I have never let those situations and circumstances either keep me awake at night or alter my interest in playing the game. I don't worry about it. If the bish are getting walloped.. and they do get walloped with good frequency when I play... I still play. If I've managed to set aside time for entertainment, I use it. I enjoy all the situations AH offers, be it an chance to go on offense or a need to play defense.

So do I think it's a good setup gameplay wise? I think it is neither good nor bad. It just is. I take it as it comes. The bitter with the sweet. Or, if you prefer, the bitter with the sour.

Sorry, the things that obviously bother you just don't bother me.

Now say a doctor told me I had advanced Coronary Heart Disease. THAT would bother me. Getting ganged by the Rooks and Knights? Pah. Just another night in the arena. As a bonus, a target-rich environment at no added charge!

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You may suggest but I'd like to play more than once a week in a reasonable setup. Probably as I said H2H is a better solution. It's for free too.

Well, then I suggest you patronise the H2H opportunities. Simply because what you seek is not and never will be (IMO) available in ANY 24/7 persistent air combat arena from any provider. I don't think it can be done. Scenarios that start every hour or two.. yah, that might work. 24/7 persistent unrestricted log in/log out? Nope, not IMO.

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Been there, done that.. DA is not an arena with constant fights as you know.

It does, however, offer the "balance" you seek. I guess you'll have to decide which you value more. Because I think the situation is mutually exclusive in this type of game.

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'd like that, thanks. However as you have said yourself, the problem is not occuring during your timezone, only mine.

Ah, finally. You admit your previous "bish ALWAYS have the numbers" diatribes were in error. Thank you.

It was as if you were looking through a keyhole and telling everyone you could see the entire planet.

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Now this discussion is already much better, you have softened your views a little (probably because you see I damn well am not alone with this opinnion) and left out the after every remark. WTG!

It isn't I who have changed.

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Edit: I logged on 9AM local time and it seems the imbalance switched from bish to knight, only this time knights didn't have more players than the two others combined - this was the setup which repeated itself for weeks and weeks.

You're not going to start "knight rants" now are you?

Don · « **Reply #23 on:** June 07, 2002, 12:13:21 PM »

>>In short, it's designed for one team to win and one team to lose. <<

I don't mean to be a stickler here but, the above is inaccurate. There are 3 countries, therefore one team wins and the other two teams lose. It is what the other two teams do to each other that determines the ganging which occurs in the arena.

sling322 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 07, 2002, 12:18:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I know well why most bishs are against side balancing - they know they can't hold a candle to their enemy if the sides do balance. All the weak material gather there to hide in numbers.

Thanks for reminding me exactly why I fly for the Bishops. The knits are blinded by their perceived superiority over others simply because a great many of them fly planes with '0', '1', or '9' anywhere in the name and the rooks just cry too damn much.

Don · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2002, 12:19:21 PM »

>>Some believe in the premise that anyone who has risen to the top should be brought down to the levels of others, in an effort to find equality...share that wealth. <<

Mr. Ripley:
This isn't a discussion of politics or social strata;) and should in no way be equated with other much more serious topics.
This is a game man, and those that play it, do so in their own way. Those who would gangbang and switch sides to get perkies will always do that.

Don · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2002, 12:28:26 PM »

>>the rooks just cry too damn much. <<

Yer so full of crap yer eyes are brown. Keep yer limp wristed, pantywaist comments to yerself:D
The only time a Rook cries in my circle is when there aint enuf of you bishits left to kill;)
Thanks for the reminder of why I fly Rooks

sling322 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2002, 12:41:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Don
>>the rooks just cry too damn much. <<

Yer so full of crap yer eyes are brown. Keep yer limp wristed, pantywaist comments to yerself:D
The only time a Rook cries in my circle is when there aint enuf of you bishits left to kill;)
Thanks for the reminder of why I fly Rooks

See what I mean? There they go again.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2002, 02:07:43 PM »

Don that text that you quoted from my post was a quote or rude's post. He is the one who is calling everyone a commie for the slightest reason.

If the bish are getting walloped.. and they do get walloped with good frequency when I play... I still play.

Bish may be walloped but are you walloped 100% of the times you log on? I bet not.

Ah, finally. You admit your previous "bish ALWAYS have the numbers" diatribes were in error. Thank you.

I suggest that you read the past conversations more carefully. I never suggested anything of the like. Quite the contrary I've stressed that this happens on my timezone and I have no knowledge of the hours when I'm at sleep.

You're not going to start "knight rants" now are you?

Toad I'm not sure if you're a bit thick or just want to aggravate; in any case I should clarify furthermore that I'm against any country having a 2:1 or worse advantage over the other. ANY COUNTRY that includes rooks where I play.

During those 2-3 times that I've seen rooks bang others and I have been online, I have taken an active step and moved to the side of the banged country.

Toad · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2002, 02:52:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I know well why most bishs are against side balancing - they know they can't hold a candle to their enemy if the sides do balance. All the weak material gather there to hide in numbers.

Yes, this and other comments made by you certainly sound as if they are carefully targeted and specific to the Euro timezone.

I am, of course, "a bit thick." After all, I'm a bish. You've already repeatedly explained just exactly what flying for the bish makes me and all other bish... as you did in the above quote. You've said it enough; it must be so.

But then I'm not so thick that I fail to understand the implications and realities of a 24/7, persistent, 3-sided arena with a world-wide playerbase.

I've thickly played AW, WB and FA before this. They found no way to find perfect balance in their Air Combat.

However, I admit I've never done very many other 24/7 persistent arena Internet games of other types.

Tell me, how do they balance the sides exactly equal in those Quake, Doom, Counterstrike, Wizard & Warrior type games?

Quote

Ripley: During those 2-3 times that I've seen rooks bang others and I have been online, I have taken an active step and moved to the side of the banged country.

Awwwwwww.. and it seems like only yesterday you were saying "Chivalry is dead in AH".

Did Yankee or Ronni, the Fair Maidens of AH, send you a scarf to wear streaming from your helmet after this sacrifice for the good of all?

Seems odd that on the apparently few occasions that you had to be on the side NOT being overwhelmed, your own "Rooks Triumphant" opportunity so to speak, you switched sides to participate in the same situation you are continually complaining about here.

Perhaps you just like being the underdog?

*

The MA is a fluid environment that is in constant flux.

If this is not your "cuppa", do yourself a favor and de-stress your life. Because I'm near-certain it isn't going to change, no matter how many times you post your dismay. You haven't offered any solutions that wouldn't cause more problems than they address. That isn't your fault.. there just isn't a solution. The same situation existed in AW, WB and FA.

Beyond that, on a scale of 1 to a 100 with 100 being a SERIOUS problem.. this problem in an online computer game charging $15 per month is a negative 5,376.

Perhaps that's why it's so hard for me to "feel your pain". You can't enjoy AH because of the design of the MA? The solution continues to stare you in the face.

Tell you what. Call HiTech at the office and have a heart-to-heart chat with him about this. I'll pay your next month's AH bill after that. If you're still interested in AH.

After all, why tell US of your sorrow? WE can't do anything about it.

HT can IF you can convince him.

Go to it laddie!