Pongo - Equalized Numbers Discussion

[Tumor]

Originally posted by sling322
This was last night after the TOD.  So it was around midnight central US time.

Dude, my schedule changes around some and I fly at a lot of different times of the day.  The only time I ever see it lopsided to the Bish is late afternoon early evening central US time.  Then the problem is rectified later when the 'good' rooks show up and start flying instead of crying.  You couple that with the alliance they have forged with the Leather Wearing knits and it becomes more difficult for us Bish to gangrape the arena like we do all the time every day for the last 3 years.

Just keep up the ridiculous diatribe....you will drive more and more people out of your country.  Or better yet, fire some of the 'little generals' and maybe your country would be more pleasant to fly for.

Hate to break it to you but I spend allot of time flying early morning to around 10ish U.S. Eastern... in the last weeks (months maybe) Bish are generally very heavy in numbers.  Noonish it even's up some, imagine it's the lunchtime crowd grabbing a quick run or two.  

If what you say is true.....  prime time U.S. is about the only time you can't predict who will have the numbers.

Ripley
I'm all for finding an equitable solution to finding some balance within the MA, but how would you address the various squads and squad alliances?  I'm not leaving my squad in order to balance the arena, we'd just as soon remain together with the underdogs than do that.  Also, there are a few other squads we like to operate jointly with.. because of old friendships.  Unfortunately there are only a couple of squads I know of with any numbers that fly your time zone, the Tokyo Shockboys come to mind (or maybe they are just a few but I always see lots of kills recorded by those guys in the txt buffer), there are a couple of others (and I haven't a clue what country they fly for).  

I would suggest Ripley, that rather than try to bring about changes in gameplay by argueing on this board, round up some of your country-mates and force the change on the players.  I've seen small mission's, with only a few people completely turn the tide of the great 2 sided gangbang a number of times.  Try it.  Here, on this bbs.. all you will ever get is people who either don't care, or don't want change.. usually in the form of flames wich will never do anything more than irritate you and make them feel better in some wierd way.

edit[/i]  Oh and for what it's worth, it's the Bish getting gangraped in primetime U.S. more often than not... "lately"

[Lance]

Burp.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Tumor: My suggestions would help also your country, bish, from going into the bucket. I can see no downpoint there..

Edit: It was Tumor not Toad, sorry.

Probably the best way to stop imbalance would be to disable squad rotations to countries which have many players and thus creating imbalance in numbers. To the equal side or smaller side this would be still possible. Second step would be to make new accounts automatically default to the smallest country, that way the country would maybe not get actual help but with time the newbies would grow into backing up the country. Third way would be to modify score multiplier to reflect the increased effort required to get kills at a disadvantage. I know what you have said about the alliances and I have to disagree - it's extremely rare that the smaller country can ally with a larger one. If sides are large-smaller-very small its the very small that gets banged.

In answer to your question above, I originally used my WB callsign mrsid when I posted here at that time UBB gave different screen name and login name so I was under the name of mrripley. Then after switch of computers, e-mail accounts etc. I took first mrsid2 and finally MrRiplEy[H] identitys. I've always flown as mrripley in AH excluding my 2 week trial which was about one year before I finally took a MA account. I flew h2h exclusively.

Edit: In any case, so far so good - sides have balanced after many many months of constant lopsideness. The arena numbers have been good all weekend and I'm really optimistic about the future. Don't really know what has caused this but whatever it was I'm happy.

[Tumor]

Ahhh... it was Toad lol

[Toad]

Mr. Sid. OK, Thanks; helps things fall into place.

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
No Toad the basic fact is that you are against any change. That's conservatism.[/b]

I am? Gee. So my lobbying for changes to Icons, Trim, Damage model and numerous other items doesn't qualify as "any change"?

Or is it because I don't have a "Crusade of the Week" like some other players?

Or does it not count because I don't continually bring something up ad nauseam until HTC sees my wisdom and changes it?

Or does it not count because I don't make ad hominem attacks against other players when I make my case?

Or does it not count because I don't curse the fools at HTC when I describe my position?

And, one other question: If I'm conservative then will I have to debate people with clever, well thought out replies like these"

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Poor AKiron is totally clueless.. [/b]

or

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] You people don't seem to grasp the idea of balance.. LOL. Can you really be that retarded? [/b]

in order for you to think of me as "liberal"?

Or are you just trying to show Killjoy2 how rude and arrogant I am when compared to a true gentleman like yourself?

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] You meticulously deny any problem even though you well know that the situation is much worse for players who play during your sleeping time.[/b]

No, I simply realize that continuously variable numbers are merely one characteristic of a 24/7, persistent, unlimited log in/log out arena. I guess either one realizes this or one doesn't.

Beyond that, if you are truly Euro timezone and you see this problems at 0400 CDT in the US then you are seeing them between 1000 and 1300 in Europe. So at midday the numbers aren't balanced? I'm not really suprised. How many people in Europe play at noontime? Is the night time any better? That's when most people play in the US, in the evenings.
 

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'm paying my AH bill and I'm not allowed to curse in the game. [/b]

As a true liberal, doe that distress you? And what effect does it have on gameplay for you or anyone else in the arena? GAMEPLAY now. Are you unable to get folks to join missions if you don't curse at them or something like that?

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] Just aswell HT could choose people are not allowed to do gameplay detrimental decisions like switch to a side which already has way too many players for any kind of balanced gameplay.[/b]

Yes, he could. What device would you suggest he install to keep them from logging off instead then? I mean if you get your wish and HTC implements a device from switching from a low-number country to a side with "too many players", how will you keep that type of person from just logging off?

Again, I know people switch sides to the high side. I just don't see how you are going to MAKE people do what you wish. They always have a choice. Play or not play. But a barrier in to stop them from doing something they want to do and they may just log off. Now the high side team doesn't get an extra player but a low side team loses one none the less. That doesn't improve the odds a bit, does it?

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] The thing you can't understand it seems is that up to a certain point being the underdog can be fun and challenging (be it the situation varies or is not severe in nation) and all sides can have a maximum fun of the game.[/b]

Well, here's a few things I don't think you understand:

Human Nature is amazingly diverse. One person likes asparagus and another does not, for example.

Not everyone cares at all that sides are balanced. They just log in to play for an hour or two of entertainment and relaxation. They play no matter what the odds are and then they log off and go on with their real lives, dealing with real problems.

Not everyone cares who "wins the war". Take Laz for example. I'm sure he doesn't care a whit what the numbers are as long as he has an open fighter hangar to launch his -1 from.

Not everyone cares to be ordered around by the "generals" to "save the country" in a game.

Not everyone cares to be told how to have "fun".

Not everyone agrees on the definition of "maximum fun". The act of not agreeing doesn't make them "cluess" or "retarded" either. They just have a different view.

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] But when selfish players who only look at their own interests join the largest side in search of easy kills and protection of the group,[/b]

Well, then those nasty beggars should have their accounts cancelled!

After all, you can't have people running around paying for a game for their own entertainment and then have them look at their own interests for Cod's sake! Actually doing what is fun for them! Jeebus! This MUST stop! They either agree beforehand to abide by one person's definition of fun or out they go! [/sarcasm]

Tell me, how do you feel about HO's and chute shooting?

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H] This Toad is something you haven't realised or even tried to realise during all these dozens of messages we've been exchanging. Your stand is simply that just because you see no problem during your timezone there can't be a problem for anyone else either.

No, I've not taken that stand. In fact, if you recall I've pointed out that even the moronic, "thick" Bish get ganged during US prime time. I've seen what you are talking about and experienced it myself.

Now here's where we differ... the part YOU "haven't realised or even tried to realise during all these dozens of messages" IMO.

1. EVERYONE that plays or has played AH has experienced significant numerical disadvantage. In individual flights, in attacks on bases, in defense of bases AND IN THE ARENA ITSELF.

2. This is simply because that is the very nature of a persistent 24/7 unrestricted log in/log out arena.

3. So far NOT A SINGLE ONE of the 24/7 unrestricted log in/log out arena ACM games had been able to devise a method of "balancing" sides. Not AW, not WB, not FA and not AH.

4. Lastly, and most importantly, I don't think you realize that playing during a "significant numerical disadvantage" doesn't bother everyone as much as it bothers you. Mostly because these people realize two things:

a) What goes around, comes around.

b) It's only a game.

[Toad]

...... and this issue separately.

Ripley


"I'm not exactly sure what you're after with this, but let's consider the following:

a) You're daring me to do something like a little child and then calling me chicken when I won't do what you want me to do.

b) I don't know Hitech personally so I have no need to call him personally either.

c) Despite your promises there is no way you could make up the phone costs etc. for me as you don't know anything about me.

d) I will call Hitech if and when I want to, with the answer being I don't want to - e-mail is a much cheaper and effective means of communication when we talk about overseas connections.

e) I already sent an e-mail to HTC where I stated that I will reconsider reactivating my account if the balance situation stays the same when I return from my vacation. If there are many others who will do the same, it won't go unnoticed in HTC. If they don't care about it then it means I'm in the small minority with my opinnion and maybe this game is not suitable for me. That also leads to HT not getting my monthly subscription money."[/b]

a. I'm not daring you to do anything. I'm offering to pay the telephone charges incurred if you call HT and talk to him about your concerns and suggestions for improvement.

I think that by doing this, you'll engage in a give-and-take discussion on gaming that you will find enlightening. I again assure you that he is one smart guy with respect to his business and his clientele.

I think you'll enjoy it and I think it will help you relax concerning this numbers issue.

b. I've never met HT either. I've talked to him and Pyro many times on the telephone. They're really nice guys, interesting and very, very smart about this online gaming thing.

The fact that I "don't know" them doesn't mean they aren't great folks to to talk to. I'm sure they'll take time out to talk to any concerned customer.

c. So your're saying $15 isn't enough? How much do you need? I'll cover the cost of a 30 minute call, how's that? Don't want an AH subscription? I'll send ya a check or PayPal or whatever. I'm offering you an free opportunity to talk to HT about your concerns. That's all.

d. Well, E-mail isn't as good as talking realtime, IMO.

e. So basically you gave them an ultimatum. If the numbers don't suit your standards, you quit.

Well, that's one way to negotiate.

Let see what happens to subscriptions after 1.10 and the ads running in the various WW2 aircraft enthusiast venues.

My offer to pay for a 30 minute call stands. I think you'll enjoy it if you take advantage of it.

[lazs2]

actually.... I kinda feel sorry for those guys who "swarm" a field with 4-10 to one odds and drop the fighter hangers first thing... How they can enjoy wasting all that time just to fight over scraps is beyond me.    I do kinda enjoy killing the only con while 6 of my countrymen are fighting over him but only as a diversion for the real fighting and only if there is nothing fun to do.

I don't care if the fights are crappy because of numbers, poor gameplay issuses or simply the result of too much organization all these things feel the same to me.   As toad says... all I care about is a field to take off from (I would add that it is best if it is close to the action and not too lopsided).   What is happening in the rest of arena is not important.
lazs

[Minotaur]

AH is a victim game.  if there are no victims there is no game.

For every single victory in the game there is a victim.  This occurs on every component level of game play.

The problem is that players will grow tired of constantly being the victim.  

Deal with it and play on, don't deal with it and quit or switch to a team that will minimize exposure.  These are generally the three methods that are utilized by most players.

Play balancing is what ensures that being victimized is more or less an even proposition.  I am in favor of any suggestion to improve play balancing.

[Toad]

Originally posted by lazs2
all I care about is a field to take off from (I would add that it is best if it is close to the action and not too lopsided).   What is happening in the rest of arena is not important.
lazs

I don't think Mr. Sid will approve.

I, however, have no problem whatsoever with that. After all, it is YOUR $15; who else has the right to tell you how you should (or should not) play?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Toad the problem is not a varying situation on the arena. The problem comes with being constantly in the hole..

Beyond that, if you are truly Euro timezone and you see this problems at 0400 CDT in the US then you are seeing them between 1000 and 1300 in Europe. So at midday the numbers aren't balanced? I'm not really suprised. How many people in Europe play at noontime? Is the night time any better? That's when most people play in the US, in the evenings.

In the evenings the situation has been the most lopsided. 120 vs 120 vs 30 is the worst I have seen, 4:4:2 was common. Right now the arena balance has taken a step to a healthy direction, no country outnumbers others 2:1 anymore at any time I can log on.


Or does it not count because I don't continually bring something up ad nauseam until HTC sees my wisdom and changes it?

You should take a look in the mirror, you're doing the exact same with my posts whenever I raise discussion about the subject.

In fact with my problem being seemingly gone at this time, I can declare you Toad the winner of this bickering so we can both move on onto something more productive than arguing over meaningless detail. There is a saying that the smarter one quits first and I fully plan to win that race.

[Toad]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Sling how often do you fly 4-5 am your local time? Because that's probably when the things I speak of are occurring.

So this reply of yours to Sling was NOT what you meant to say then?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Toad I was guessing that our primetime would be something like 4-5 am his time if he didn't see the numbers I see.

Last one before the last they say. End and out.

[Toad]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Toad the problem is not a varying situation on the arena. The problem comes with being constantly in the hole..

Well the MA does constantly vary in the macro view.

If you solely look at it in one narrow daily slot, a micro view, it could be more static I guess. Now, I agree if it happens to be the only time you can ever fly and it really bothers you then you would have a problem. If you can fly another time or if you are the type that just doesn't worry about it... no problemo.

All depends on the person and the personality, I think.

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Right now the arena balance has taken a step to a healthy direction, no country outnumbers others 2:1 anymore at any time I can log on.

Wonderful! Good!

Now this may be because of good Sir Ripley the Chivalrous' campaign to enlighten the unwashed Bish masses and their subsequent conversion to the One, True Faith of AH. And it may last eternally and we'll all live happily ever after.

Or, it may just be the true nature of the MA acting once again. It may be the pendulum swinging as it always does and it may well swing back in the near or far term as pendulums always seem to do....... by design.

Be interesting to see, won't it.

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You should take a look in the mirror, you're doing the exact same with my posts whenever I raise discussion about the subject.

I'm not the one that initiated the "problem threads". You are the one continually raising the issue in multiple threads. I haven't bothered to reply in all of them, just a very few. In this thread, which was essentially dead after Pongo and I finished, you came looking to start it up again. I merely obliged you.


In short,  I have merely responded to YOU with MY view on your problem/suggestions. You're the one that can't let this "arena balance" thing go, despite having had your say in multiple threads. You're the one that initially took issue with anyone opposing your idea. In fact, you've repeatedly insulted those that disagree with you. "Clueless", "Retarded" ring any bells? Not to mentiong the "shotgun approach" you took to insulting any and all Bish.

Now.. you still didn't explain to me how YOU'RE a liberal but I'M conservative.

Or how the profanity filter affects gameplay.......

Or why "selfish" players thay pay their own way in the game shouldn't be allowed to "look at their own interests" instead of doing what YOU think is proper.

Or how to keep people from just logging off if you implement features that don't allow them to do what they desire to do in the game......

And my offer still stands for a no-expense 30 minute chat with HT.

Ta-Ta!!

[MrRiplEy[H]]

No Toad you're trying to deny me my right to express an opinnion on the board.

You're negating everything I say just for the sake of creating trouble.

I never said profanity filter affects gameplay adversely, it was just one example of a user controlling method which was implemented without fearing 'people just logging off.'

As I said I have no interest whatsoever to make an expensive overseas phonecall to HTC just to please you, get over it.

This is the final post I'm going to make on the subject as I'm extremely bored being played around by your little word games.

Find something else to do Toad as you won't be doing this with me anymore.

[Toad]

No, I'm denying you your desire to post your opinion without having anyone post an opposing opinion.

As if such a "right" on an internet BBS exists.

I believe that's what you're really ticked off about. After all, you've insulted just about everyone that posted an opposing opinion.. like AKIron.

You are correct in one respect though. If one posts on an open internet BBS, one should expect an opposing view from someone. Human nature.

So feel absolutely free to post any opinion you like on the BBS. I encourage you to do so in the same way that I encourage you to call HT at my expense and have a 1 on 1 chat about the problem as you see it.

However, just don't expect that everyone will bow down and agree with you when you do post.

Of course, you can always insult those that don't agree, right?