Author Topic: I like the new approach!!  (Read 1738 times)

Offline Nashwan

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I like the new approach!!
« Reply #105 on: June 21, 2002, 02:53:46 PM »
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I care not what excuses you try to make or who or what you try to justify.

I'm not excusing the inexcusable, or justifying the unjustifiable. I'm giving you reasons why it happens, and reasons why it's inevitable.

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I will not get in bed with Terrorists and say it's "ok" since they don't get things the way they want.

Israel wasn't given the West Bank and Gaza. They wanted them, they took them and they're holding on to them by force, which includes killing Palestinians. Today, for example, an Israeli tank fired a shell at Jenin market, killing 4 people, including 3 kids, 2 6 year olds and a 12 year old.

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If you can sleep at night giving the go ahead to these people.. be my guest.

They've never asked me my opinion, much less for my permission. If they did, I'd say no.

Offline Nashwan

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I like the new approach!!
« Reply #106 on: June 21, 2002, 02:59:52 PM »
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A second time Nashawan

So your saying Terror is an acceptable form of warfare, or politics?

What is an acceptable form of warfare?

I can't remember if it was on AH or another board, but soembody posted two quotes from America, before they got involved in WW2.

The first condemned the practice of bombing civilians, the second the practice of straffing attacks on civilians. They were described as immoral, iirc.

Both tactics were adopted by the US during the war.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #107 on: June 21, 2002, 03:35:28 PM »
Stricktly speaking that is not an answer nashwan (just wanted to point that out) And I do feel the question is legit.

(And I posted those quotes...who else right ;)

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2002, 03:39:27 PM »
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Originally posted by Tumor
by the way... this is my first +100 thread lol.  I'm so proud I can hardly contain myself hehehe


100? .......pocket change ;)

Offline Eagler

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I like the new approach!!
« Reply #109 on: June 21, 2002, 03:44:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Nashwan

What is an acceptable form of warfare?.


Is this???

Hamas Declares 'War on Buses'

sick bastards ... need to be exterminated

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55764,00.html

these crazy sand sucking arses are slowly taking us all into WWIII, I guess at that point some of you will see the "light"
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #110 on: June 22, 2002, 01:09:05 AM »
I read today Arafat announced that he would now accept in full the Clinton/Barak plan that he stormed away from in a huff a few years ago.

This comes as Israel announced it was going to re-occupy all PLO land again.

Arafat then condemed all raids against Israeli citizens and warned that if they did not end, Isreal would take over all their land.

LOL! Arafat may be a little late. He says this now only because Israel is finnally gonna unleash on the PLO's  filthy, murdering asses. This proves that the only thing the PLO ( now PLA for political correctness) understand is FORCE!

Israel needs to wipe these guys ( PLO, Arafat, Hamas, etc) out once and for all. That is the only way Palastinian people will get peace.

By the way, can you name a millitary conflic in history that was ever solved without the use of force? Arafat signed many pieces of paper over the years, yet now when Israel is preparing to take over all the PLA areas, he's ready to talk! Go Figure huh?


NUKE

Offline Thrawn

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Re: Arafat wants peace now!
« Reply #111 on: June 22, 2002, 01:46:47 AM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
By the way, can you name a millitary conflic in history that was ever solved without the use of force?

NUKE


Uhhh...

Have we ever heard of a MILITARY CONFLICT that was ever solved without the USE OF FORCE?

Well gosh, I guess not NUKE, you have us there.  Damn but you're a politcal jeenius. :rolleyes:

Offline NUKE

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I like the new approach!!
« Reply #112 on: June 22, 2002, 02:55:58 AM »
"Uhhh...

Have we ever heard of a MILITARY CONFLICT that was ever solved without the USE OF FORCE?

Well gosh, I guess not NUKE, you have us there. Damn but you're a politcal jeenius."

And thanks to Thrawn for being the first to make my point: Israel and PLO in a military conflict, that meaning Israel now needs to wipe out PLO with full MILITARY force.


 
NUKE

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2002, 04:41:29 AM »
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Stricktly speaking that is not an answer nashwan (just wanted to point that out)

It seems like an answer to me.

To reiterate: I don't support, justify, condone or approve of the terrorist attacks.

I also don't support, justify, condone or approve of Israeli policy of ehnic cleansing and colonization.

I believe the Israeli policy is fueling the conflict. Even if Palestinians prove not to have normal human traits, and remain comitted to the conflict after Israel pulls out of the territories, a pull out will allow Israel to establish a proper border between herself and the Palestinians.

I believe the current Israeli government could end the war by negotiations, but chooses not to because their desire for land outweighs the casualties they are incuring.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #114 on: June 22, 2002, 04:48:29 AM »
(Actually you still havent answered the question, but I'm gonna drop that one since you obviously dont want to give it a "yes" or "no" answer)

And I disagree with your analysis on why the current Israeli government chooses not to enter into negotiations.

The US has a policy that has worked for them. They NEVER negotiate with terrorists. Because once you start doing that, you have practically opened the door for every other organization to start using violence to achieve their goals.

And Israel can establish a proper border right now if they want to. All they have to do is fence in all Palestinian settlements.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #115 on: June 22, 2002, 04:49:49 AM »
btw, Nashwan, you seem to have alot of knowledge about the terrorist attacks. Do you know if any suicide bomber and/or other type of terrorist (gunman) have come from inside Israel, or are all of them from the occupied territories? When I say "inside Israel", Im talking about Israeli arabs.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2002, 04:52:11 AM by Hortlund »

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #116 on: June 22, 2002, 05:42:33 AM »
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The US has a policy that has worked for them. They NEVER negotiate with terrorists. Because once you start doing that, you have practically opened the door for every other organization to start using violence to achieve their goals.

The Israeli's had the option to negotiate a settlement with the Palestinians in the 25 years they occupied the West Bank and Gaza. They chose not to.

They don't really have much of an option now.

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And Israel can establish a proper border right now if they want to. All they have to do is fence in all Palestinian settlements.

They can't fence in 3 million Palestinians for two main reasons.

Firstly, they haven't got the manpower in the IDF to maintain those "borders". Hitler was often criticised for not listening to reason and shortening the front lines with the Soviets. I don't think the IDF are that stupid.

Secondly, the 3 million Palestinians in their ghettos will have to be fed, because they will be unable to produce food, supplied with medical care etc.

Israel can't afford to maintain it's own unemployed, of about 250,000. Keeping 3 million Palestinians in idleness is more than they can afford.

As an example of the financial pressure, next year the IDF is facing a budget cut of 1 billion shekels. Returning the civil administration to the territories would cost 3 - 4 billion shekels, about $800 million. And that's assuming Palestinians are able to grow their own food etc.

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Actually you still havent answered the question, but I'm gonna drop that one since you obviously dont want to give it a "yes" or "no" answer

I'm confused as to what the question was now. Repeat it, and I'll see if I can give it a yes/no answer. Not all questions can have a yes/no answer, however. The classic is "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

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Do you know if any suicide bomber and/or other type of terrorist (gunman) have come from inside Israel, or are all of them from the occupied territories? When I say "inside Israel", Im talking about Israeli arabs.

As far as I am aware, 1 Israeli Arab has carried out a suicide attack, although I think he was a Palestinian Arab who recieved citizenship when his mother married an Israeli Arab.

Shin Bet, the Israeli securiy service, said involvement of Israeli Arabs in terrorism is growing. They say they investigated 8 cases in 2000, which had risen to about 20 cases in 2001. These are only suspicions and investigations, and usually concern involement or contact with Palestinian terrorists, not active involvement in terrorist operations.

A typical example is an Israeli Arab girl, who was befriended by a Palestinian Arab. She bought him a mobile phone, because he claimed his had been cut off, but he really wanted a phone not registered to him so that Shin Bet wouldn't tap it. She then went on to give him lifts in her car etc. Very few cases like this result in prosecution, and Shin Bet itself admits Israeli Arab involvement is "marginal".

The most recent case was an Israeli Jewish woman, a prostitue and immigrant from Russia, knowingly helping a terrorist bombing in Israel.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #117 on: June 22, 2002, 02:10:12 PM »
The question:
Are you saying that Terror is an acceptable form of warfare, or politics? (in your own very personal opinion that is) Do you think that terror is an acceptable form of warfare, politics or resistance?

On the Israeli arabs. But doesnt that show, that arabs, palestinians can live a normal life inside Israel? If the Israeli arabs have been able to get over the idea of an independent palestine, and prosper, why should not the other palestinians be able to do the same thing.

Perhaps the best solution would be if Israel would annex the west bank. Those palestinians who are reluctant to become Israeli arabs are given the opportunity to move to the Gaza strip which becomes "Palestine".

Stay, and you will be adopted as an Israeli citizen (after a period of time), leave and you will get to work towards creating a glorious Palestine on the Gaza strip with all your friends.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2002, 02:12:44 PM by Hortlund »

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #118 on: June 22, 2002, 04:00:15 PM »
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Are you saying that Terror is an acceptable form of warfare,

Yes and no.

It's as acceptable as any other form of warfare. Bombing towns, shelling towns, blockades, all cause civilian deaths. Wars often descend into killing civilians. When one side has an upper hand, it is easy to refrain from doing so. When one side is left with few other options, they kill civilians.

Almost everyone active on this board is a citizen of a country that has done so in the last 60 years.

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or politics

No. Violence is not an acceptable form of politics. I don't agree with Clauswitz (sp?)

Violence should be confined to self defence only.

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Do you think that terror is an acceptable form of warfare, politics or resistance?

Yes, no, yes, in that order. When you are attacked, you fight back.

I am fairly sure that if the IDF offered to use only infantry in the teritories, in return for no more suicide bombings, the Palestinian terrorist groups would take them up on it.

Saying terrorism is wrong is fine for the side with the tanks, planes, helicopters etc. Remember, the Zionists used the same tactics of attacking civilians to found their state. It seems very hypocritical to say we used terrorism against you, but now we have power you must not use it against us.

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On the Israeli arabs. But doesnt that show, that arabs, palestinians can live a normal life inside Israel?

Yes, it does. I said as much on the other threads.

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If the Israeli arabs have been able to get over the idea of an independent palestine, and prosper, why should not the other palestinians be able to do the same thing.

Perhaps the best solution would be if Israel would annex the west bank. Those palestinians who are reluctant to become Israeli arabs are given the opportunity to move to the Gaza strip which becomes "Palestine".

Stay, and you will be adopted as an Israeli citizen (after a period of time), leave and you will get to work towards creating a glorious Palestine on the Gaza strip with all your friends.

If the West Bank was annexed, and made part of Israel, the Palestinians would be partying in the streets. The list of Palestinians trying to become Israeli citizens through marriage makes the list for the US green card lottery look small.

What the vast majority of Palestinians want is a better life.

Unfourtunately, that's never been on offer. Israel is a "Jewish democractic" state. It can't be that if half it's inhabitants are Arabs.

After Israel conquered the territories, the Palestinians were offered nothing. No chance at citizenship, no votes, no public money (although they had to pay taxes). In that situation, where they had no citizenship in any state, and faced the prospect of gradualy been removed from any land they owned, conflict was inevitable. It's suprising it took so long.

Israel could solve this problem, either through abandoning the West Bank and Gaza, or absorbing them and the Arabs who live there. Trying to take the land without the people is foolish, and bound to lead to war.

Offline Fjoder

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I like the new approach!!
« Reply #119 on: June 23, 2002, 09:41:24 AM »
Dar al-Salaam - House of peace - the islamic way of peace, this involves the entire world to either be islamic or recognize the leadership and world religion as Islam.

In order to get to "House of peace" The world must face the "House of war", house of war means all none islamic believers must convert to islam, die by the sword or accept the only true religion of islam and recognize the islamic leaders as the true leaders.

Those who accept the terms but wish to still be christians , jews or be part of any non-islamic religion must obey the dhimmi rules.

This means 2nd or 3rd grade citizenship.


fjod.