Author Topic: 190 vs. ? (Read 509 times)

WildBlue · « **on:** June 24, 2002, 02:28:43 AM »

Just wondering what useful info I can come up with. I have flown the 190A5 before with good results, I have a habit of pushing fights into the vertical, and the a5 does better than you would think there, when you push it. I have always tried to get the target below me and dive on them, but what if a bird is above me with better energy? I always try to start out around 18-20k in the a5, it has worked well, but what should I do if I screw up and get low with less speed? Low meaning under about 6 - 8k? Up high, I use wep sparingly, so I have plenty when I do get low, but I always seem to end up on the deck, and the spits and others just slowly wear me down and wax me, after I put a couple in the bag,

any help here?

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:50:18 AM »

Just keep in mind that A5 is not any good at 20k or above, and is not competitive below 8k against the La7 horde. Try to neuter the enemy E advantage at about 15k, and try to keep there and fast. Any other tip would imply that you are actually in front of something with hispanos at less than 1000 yards, but if you get to this point, you will loose so much E scissoring the con that you will become a dead duck against a second enemy nearby.

WildBlue · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2002, 07:08:21 AM »

Yeah, I hate trying to rely on the scissors at ANY time. I usually make my pass, if I don't get the kill, which would only be poor gunnery on my part (I run the full gun load), I usually just try to break off in a gentle zoom, once I have separation I bring it back around. Or if I REALLY want a kill, just chop throttle and ride out on their 6, eventually getting it, while setting myself up for the spit/La crowd. This actually worked to my advantage once, I got 3 kills from overshoots! I guess the 190 is the same as any other good bird, get it low'n'slow and you're dead. For what it's worth... I still think the a5 is the best! You can have your doras, shove 'em! gimme my a5 anyday! Heheh

Edit: Of course that simple B'n'Z doesn't always work so perfectly... that's where sometimes I play... the A5 will actually do more than people give it credit for! I was accused if cheating once when I outturned a spit... well duh! If the spit is in a flat turn and I use the vertical, hell yeah I just outturned his flat turn! Common sense duh! Guess he didn't understand...

I think maybe I should just keep flying it the way I'm doing now... I'll learn more as I go, but I know enough too...

senna · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2002, 05:33:50 PM »

Hey Wildblue, good to see a new 190 pilot. I've been flying the "butcherbird" for a very long time. Actually it was the very first bird I learned in WB and AH. Here are some guidelines I use and would pass on.

1. The 190 is not a dogfighter so dont do it no matter what unless your prey is injured and nothing else is around you.

2. Stay fast and stay sneaky.

3. Always carry 100% fuel. 190s cant turn anyways so just carry alot of range to set yourself up for the ambushes and options etc... Make your own luck I like to say.

4. For "instant action" type of sorties I still carry 100% fuel because its unlikely you will get a quick kill going stright into a dogfight anyways. Also if you "think" that you want to go out and perform some acrobats with less fuel, your only setting yourself up to die. On these supposedly short missions I usually climb to 10k (great operational alt for a 190), try to get a kill if not, extend and plan a longer sortie out.

5. Timing is everything. When to go for it and when to break are the two most important factors to decide when I fly a 190.

6. Practice using your rolls to change direction quickly. Its rather tricky because it's disorienting and all but thats a requirement as well.

Furious · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:33:20 PM »

Senna,

To say the the FW's are not dogfighter's is incorrect. They do very well when flown agressively during close in knife fights.

...well maybe not the 190-f8.

F.

senna · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:59:19 PM »

Furious I agree but from a spectators point of view. Thats not how I fly it. However during those (very educational) rare moments when I'm fiting with another 190 and I'm watching how these other luffwobbles do it, some guys can get the 190 to do some interesting things.

WildBlue · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2002, 02:10:29 AM »

From the little I know, I have to agree with both of you. The 190 is an excellent B'n'Z bird, but at the same time, it has the ability to push a dogfight! At least that is imho of the A5. If the fight is kept in the vertical, never trying to flat out match turns, the A5 is a decent fighter! As I said before, I have outturned a spit, using my better roll rate in the vertical. The cautions about speed are well taken, you have made me realize my biggest poblem, that is keeping speed up. Although, I will give up speed to gain alt for a sure kill, when I know I can get it. Thanks to all if for nothing else than making me think about what I am doing!

Naudet · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2002, 05:36:33 AM »

Don't forget that flying style also must be ajusted to the enviroment.

When fighting against superior numbers, turns and even reversals will get you killed. Than especially in a FW190 you have to rely on pure B&Z.

In a 1v1 situation it very much relates to the pilot skills. If your are used to your FW190s abilities you can press the fight as long as the opposing pilot isn't the smart type. On the other hand, even when you start a 1v1 with all advantages, you might just get a draw against anything when it's pilot it smart. I usually stay with E tactics in 1v1 and shut off my greed for kills.

And if you are outnumbering your target, it might well be good to go to minimum turning speed and scare your target to death. Your would wonder how funny it is when you stay with a spit IX through almost 720° turns, than accelerating out and position him for your wingie.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2002, 09:41:55 AM »

Interesting thread, I've never gotten into a successful knifefight in a 190...however I usually fly the A8 or dora. I tend to fly the A8 like a Delta Hog, and the D9 like a pony. maybe I'm using them wrong

Gainsie

senna · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2002, 02:47:18 PM »

RedTail444, getting into a knife fite in a 190 usually means that one is about to die (usually). Why because it means that the hunter has now become the hunted. On the other hand choosing a knife fite is an entirely different fite. Wildblue, just remember that dogfighting in a 190 is not its nature no matter how good the 190 pilot is. If you win its because you survived due to skill but you got the kill because of luck. A spitfire dweeb is a handfull, imagine a Spitfire ace in a dogfight. Theres way too many places for mistake to be made in a 190 during a knife fite so one shouldnt find himself there unless theres not much other choice. That would be the plan for the "normal" thinking man. On the more positive side if you find yourself in a knife fite, first mistake the opponent makes, you have to kill him then. If not, your lucky to survive or you get a new FW. Not so bad huh?

fite (engagement) = 1 turn (within close prox)
dogfight (knife fite) = 2 turns (at least, within close prox)

Everything else is a series of extentions of an engagement.

Dont forget to bring your poker cards along with you on sorties for the climb out

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2002, 10:05:35 AM »

Speak of the devil....last night I was in a Charlie and a 190 dora tried to sneak in on the deck...maybe he wasnt a good pilot, or maybe the hog is more manueverable, but I managed to reverse and go vertical, after a short dance, I took off an elevator, and down he went...was fun. Thanks for the advice