Author Topic: Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.  (Read 1068 times)

Offline eskimo2

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« on: June 26, 2002, 12:52:54 PM »
I think that the biggest problem with the current set-up is that the map is very stagnant as far as base captures go, perhaps the most stagnant I have ever seen.  All battles from the center are uphill time-line-wise, that is players must use earlier war planes to fight progressively later war planes.  I knew that this would become and issue, but figured that it could easily be overcome by the lopsided numbers that we often see in the CT.  

I think the multi-era theme has had too great of an impact on game-play, especially the way it was implemented this week.  The CT this week could have moved to mid and late war front line fights, but has instead remained early war with an occasional jet and Tempest showing up.  It would have worked better if there were more of a reward for base capture.  As it stands this week, if you capture a base using 1941 planes, you get 1942 planes.  With these 1942 planes you must fight against 1943 planes, unless you fight laterally, in which case you are fighting against the same era.  My original idea for this set-up included a new map idea with closer bases.  With the current set-up, if you don't like any of the front line planes, you are looking at a minimum 50 mile flight just to get to the enemies front line base.
 
I'm not sure why, but I never saw the Allies putting up an offensive campaign, and am not sure if German territory was ever captured, not what I expected with the numbers advantage to the Allies.  It seemed as if the Allies were only trying to recover lost land.  I did see some Allied fighter sweeps into German land, but no base capture task groups.  

I still like the one-fighter-per-base idea though.  I figured that the Axis had the plane advantage early war/mid-map, and the Allies would hold the advantage late war/on the edges.  I have found, however, that the Hurri IIC is a very competitive match for the 109E, if not a superior aircraft.  I also loved the one plane type verses another fights that occurred.  As I figured from the beginning, one side usually had an aircraft advantage, but there were also some very good match-ups this week.  The 109G-2s from the Finish CV had some great fights against the Spit Vs at A23, and also matched well against P-47D-11s at A-36.

OK, enough of my thoughts, what (if anything) about this weeks set-up did you like?

What didn't you like?

Did you try this weeks set-up, and did you fly more or less than you have in the recent past (in the CT)?

If it were to be repeated, what would you change?  (Map, less of an uphill time-line fight, more than one plane per base, more bombers, drop the multi-era concept, etc.)

Did this set-up give you any new ideas for a future set up, in any way?

eskimo

Offline Squire

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2002, 01:15:37 PM »
My squad was in there last night and had a lot of fun. The terrain is somewhat uninspiring, but I didnt mind the setup. Has to be some variety in the CT setups, I wouldnt complain if a similar setup was done again, with a better terrain, at some point in the future.
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Offline Jester

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2002, 03:07:13 PM »
LAME!!!!!!   zzzzzzz   zzzzzzz    zzzzzzz  zzzzzzzz   zzzzzzzzz

Still, don't get me wrong, it has the potential for a good set-up if worked right.

Have Forward fields with no aircraft available. Only armor available & refueling & rearming services. If the forward fields were pretty close, spawn points for the armor could be on the front line and ground warfare could take place that would count toward the strategic end and influence the capturing of a field. Also it would set the field for some A2G missions.

Have mid-range fields where all the fighters and goons would have to come from.

Have the bombers available from fields further back.

Have the  CV fleets available as "wildcards" to keep the threat of invasion from the sea something that would have to be guarded against. Plus for those that want - you could have just the ship to ship battles.

Lastly, I will be the first to admitt this WILL NEVER WORK. For the simple reason that NO ONE wants to take the time to ferry up planes before they can use them and it will take time to do a mission thus cutting down on the furballing.

Such is AH. (SIGH)
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Offline keyapaha

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2002, 04:11:39 PM »
i liked the idea but i think for it to fully work we need numbers and sadly we dont have them


  last night was fun with 30+ in the arena had some good fights in my e4 but we need more than that

Offline HFMudd

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2002, 04:49:47 PM »
For whatever reason the normal small handful of PST players just were not there this week.  The little bit I was able to play was 109-E vs. Spit I and Hurri I so I never really was able to get a feel for it.  But even so I found that I really didn't want to invest as much flight time as it seemed to me it would take to get an 190A-5 in amongst the Spit I's.  For this reason I think the map was a bit large for my taste.

Offline ergRTC

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2002, 08:47:37 AM »
Good fights g2 vs spit vs?  Eskimo, you were on a vulch fest last time I saw you in there.  Not saying that it isnt partially the guy taking off, but you were out of control.

Hitting guys on the rearm pad, hitting as they roll.  lame....................

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2002, 10:50:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
Good fights g2 vs spit vs?  Eskimo, you were on a vulch fest last time I saw you in there.  Not saying that it isnt partially the guy taking off, but you were out of control.

Hitting guys on the rearm pad, hitting as they roll.  lame....................


I have no qualms about vulching, and I make no apologies.  I use every weapon in AH for vulching, will target anything, and am everything but shameful of my vulching activities.  I have been playing flight sims for quite some time, and came to realize quit some time ago that vulching is part of the game.  Its not; good, bad, skill less or lame, but it is part of the game.  Vulching is, however, both fun and an effective strategy.

I also do not complain about others who vulch, even when I am the target.  I also am one of the few who is often very willing to fly for the "bad guys", even when greatly outnumbered, giving you (and those who fly only Allied) a target.    I also am one of the few who is often very willing to solo defend a field against any number of attackers, giving you (and those who fly only Allied) a target.  And I pull every dirty trick in the book, especially when outnumbered!

So what do you call it when the balance is 23-Allied  to 9-Axis, and only 3 Axis are engaged in hitting a field that is protected by Tempests, P-47s, Spit-14s and P-51s, and one of the little 109G-2s slips in, de-acks the field, and blasts a few guys who are taking off or re-arming right in the middle of a swarm of enemy?
I call it FUN! & you whine and call it Lame vulching, LOL

It's funny that you have a problem with vulching, Mr. ergRTC.  I have a nice film from the Yamamoto scenario, of you diving on my ditched Zero, guns blazing.  (Too bad you augered, 347 mph is a bit fast to be vulching at a 30 degree angle.)  :) {Does that classify as vulching, or kill-stealing from your squad-mates?} :)

Needless to say, I had some great 109G-2 vulches, and, I had some great fights in my 109G-2 Vs. Spit Vs.

eskimo

Offline Löwe

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2002, 10:58:38 AM »
You may quote me on this..............
"If you aint vulching, you aint trying":D

Offline ergRTC

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2002, 11:24:20 AM »
Skillless yes.

I know you are good pilot, so it seems odd that you vulch.  Or are you padding the old resume? (edit:there are appropriate times for vulching like when you attempting to capture a base...)

I cant believe you are still stuck on this side balance issue.  .  I was in a 51b tuesday for a long time, and I saw plenty of nme north of the base you were vulching.  In fact I was jumped by a couple of 262s, many 190s and a handful of 109s. Bar dar indicated many more nme in relevant sectors than friendlies.

As far as augering in the yamamoto, I would be interested in seeing this.  I dont remember augering.  In fact I survived both sorties (well had to auger when we were supposed to the first frame but I doubt that is what you are talking about).

And as far as not switching sides goes, here are my axiz kill stats for tours 5 and 6
kills in
zero 2
109e 2
110 2
202 6
205 5
ju88 2
ki 61 3

out of a total of 104 kills.  And died 21 times in axis planes.  I always try to survive my sortie, even without a kill so these numbers are a very conservative estimate of my time as axis.

Eskimo since you play this game for 2 hours a day everyday I suppose you would do about anything to keep yourself occupied.

Offline eskimo2

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2002, 12:22:24 PM »
So, good pilots aren't allowed to vulch?
We have resumes?  WOW, who looks at them?
Dude, I do what I do because it's fun.
You really should try doing the same.  Anyone who gets ticked off as often as you while playing probably needs to re-evaluate how they spend their leisure time.  Loosen up RTC.

My bad, you spend 20% of your time flying for the underdog.  Good for you.  
My point was that when you fly on the side with vastly superior numbers, you sound like nothing but a whiner when you complain about the enemies tactics.  As was the case Tuesday.  Am I whining about the numbers, no.  I just don't like being whined at when I'm flying for the underdog.

My film showed that you augered as I exited.  Perhaps it was a film glitch because I exited.  But the point, which you dodged, is that you were vulching, and/or kill-stealing from your squad-mates.

Anyway, to you have anything constructive to add to this thread about the original topic.

eskimo

Offline ergRTC

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2002, 12:39:13 PM »
I am not sure whos kill I was supposed to be stealing.  When you are flying in a wing, you do what it takes to keep your friends alive.  Any f6f friend of mine that got slow with a zeke needs help.  I would be interested in seeing that film.

I was not upset about this vulching incident, as I had nothing to do with it.  I am just passing on information about how you spend your time, cause I think it is cheesy.

As far as this thread, I agree with most of what you said, just that little snippet about g2s vs
spits
-----
eskimo says
but there were also some -> very good match-ups this week<-.
                            The 109G-2s from the Finish CV had some great fights against the Spit Vs at A23,

----

and that is how this all started..................

Offline HFMudd

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2002, 01:11:14 PM »
Got to say I'm surprised and kind of sad by this.  It is unusual for CT forum topics to degenerate to vulch or arena numbers as they all seem to do in the genreal forum.  We just need to work HO's and "dweeb rides" into this somehow to complete the cycle.

(Having added nothing to thread I now go back to eating my lunch.)

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2002, 02:45:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
I am not sure whos kill I was supposed to be stealing.  When you are flying in a wing, you do what it takes to keep your friends alive.  Any f6f friend of mine that got slow with a zeke needs help.  I would be interested in seeing that film.


I see your point, an A6M floating on the ocean is quite a threat!  :)

Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC

I was not upset about this vulching incident, as I had nothing to do with it.  I am just passing on information about how you spend your time, cause I think it is cheesy.


AH regulars who know me know that I vulch, HO, and do all kinds of "Cheesy stuff", you are whining about how others play, which is about the only lame thing that you can do in AH, IMO.  Everyone is typically much happier when players avoid whining about how or what others choose to fly.  Do you really think that I am going to stop vulching because a few people whine about it?  LOL.  Heck, some people whine about getting bounced.  So therefore no
one should be allowed to bounce another player?  Maybe no one should be allowed to engage another plane until they are at equal energy states, gotta be fair you know... woo hoo, that would be fun!

RTC, I would much rather be labled a "cheesy vulcher" than "play-by-my-rules-whiner" anyday!

BTW, I happened to have a face to face conversation with Hitech about vulching at last years con, he said that vulching is your reward for knocking down the ack and getting control of the airspace at an enemy field.

Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC

As far as this thread, I agree with most of what you said, just that little snippet about g2s vs
spits
-----
eskimo says
but there were also some -> very good match-ups this week<-.
                            The 109G-2s from the Finish CV had some great fights against the Spit Vs at A23,

----

and that is how this all started..................


You also said that I fly everyday (I fly 3 or 4 nights a week actually), so why do you assume that what you saw Tuesday night was the only 109G-2 Vs. Spit V engagements that I was involved in?

eskimo

Offline ergRTC

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Critique: Close Encounters of the Third Reich.
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2002, 02:56:00 PM »
Cause I was listening to the guys on the country channel squeaking about you.  Surprised?

I prefer to strive for universal popularity, than killing people as they take off.  If I have been in a great dog fight, and the other guy is too crippled to fight, I let them go.  Why? Cause I am selfish and it makes me feel good.  When I see guys upping and I am not trying to take the base, I let them up.  Why?  Same reason.  Why do I care how you spend your time online?  Cause its cheesy (sometimes).  If you have a problem with my complaining about your behavior, change it.  I dont care if you think I am whining.

edit: oh yeah the 2 hours a day came from you 50hrs online in 29 days for tour 5.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2002, 03:11:20 PM by ergRTC »

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2002, 03:12:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
If you have a problem with my complaining about your behavior, change it


WOW!  That says it all!

Perhaps you should fly Axis more often.
You could be Hitler, you've got his tude down pat!

eskimo