Author Topic: Objectiv discussion to evolve pizza map (Read 556 times)

CptTrips · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2002, 03:34:06 PM »

>But I really don't see the need for it to be "equal".

I got that the first time.

But you do understand that there is a certain precentage of the players who disagree right?

A certain percentage of player prefer to start the war with all countries on even footing. Different tastes. Thats why HTC provides map rotations. Different maps, with different looks, different focus, different balance. Variety.

Regards,
Wab

john9001 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2002, 03:42:37 PM »

don't know why all this fuss about a map in the MA, the MA is just training for the real thing, .......scenarios

44MAG

poopster · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2002, 03:47:10 PM »

Quote

Because everyone squeaked that the old maps weren't equal

Wasn't around for that one SW, I was in the middle of gun lethality somewhere else

WB had a rotation thing for position after a reset in the old days..

They were only using one map for the tour though.

nopoop

Wotan · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2002, 04:41:51 PM »

just make each slice a seperate time frame

n slice early
se mid
sw late

No seriously I agree with nopoop.

By looking at the terrain you can see where the map designers took some of the criticism of the smaller maps plus the desire by some (me included) to enjoy some of the previous maps. (canyons, high alt fields). They solved the problem of the small fronts that plagued say the mindinao map.

I never look at the map as a whole any way. I am usually zoomed in. So pizza, peace sign, Yggdrasil, the shape makes no different to me.

However their are so many fronts that its hard to find the type of fights I enjoy. I like the fights on the island map between a4 a5, a48 a24, a27 a8. A few times on this new map I found that. But they didnt last long until some jabo dweebs (i am kidding here) killed the fhs(replace fluffer with flabo?) . This sent the roaches scurrying to the 4 corners.

Then it got boring. I like the map where a1 was in the middle and there were relatively long fronts for all countries.

The brown is tiresome to look at. But thats just me. The alts are just to high imho as well. But I could live with this as long as their was sustainable action and fights.

A small map with large fronts or ar a large map with large fronts but not more the 3.

or we could push for the suggestion I made at the top of this reply.

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2002, 04:45:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
The brown is tiresome to look at. But thats just me.

Gotta keep in mind who made the textures, AKWabbit. Remember, he's from Fort Worth, Texas. That's what he thinks the world looks like.

J_A_B · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2002, 07:29:28 PM »

Actually the brown is one of the things I like....every map AH has ever had except NDISLES has been predominantly green--and even NDISLES has a lot of green mixed in with the blue of the water. Well, I suppose the BETA map had those 20K snow-covered mountains but that was a loooong time ago and not many people flew that high anyway.

Even if the brown is ugly, it's nice flying over something different now and then. Once AKDESERT (hopefully with a one country--one slice re-design) is in a rotation, I suspect people will begin to like having a change of scenery.

J_A_B

palef · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2002, 07:54:06 PM »

It's difficult to be objective about a design issue, when appreciation of design (or Art for that matter) is a subjective and emotional issue.

I am always stunned by the dedication of the player base in the MMOGs I have participated in. SAC in AW was an amazing undertaking, and the AKs musta really busted some humps to get the map done.

I think the concepts in this map are really clever, such as the 3 slices being divided up to complicate the "front line", and the outer ring is interesting. The size of the map is impressive, and I managed to pull off a solo base capture from a combined Cruiser/CV action, which was fun. The colour scheme makes it hard to see GVs (a good thing IMO) and it is fun to strafe them in a Yak 9T or Hurri IID while dodging huge boulders.

However I have to say that my subjective feeling is not entirely positive. I prefer the Historical type maps, and Mindanao is my favourite. NDIsles gave a feeling of Pacific Island hopping, so even that was fun even if not "real" geography.

to the AKs for the hard work.

palef

AKIron · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2002, 08:09:04 PM »

Thanks palef.

Before starting work with the editor we discussed the issues involved in creating a realistic or at least non-symetrical terrain. The issue of unfairness, real or perceived, in anything but a symetrical layout outweighed all the arguments we tossed around. I'm not saying it can't be done, just not by us at that time.

I'm hoping someone else can do it, at least it might take some of the heat off us.

BTW, this whole thing is Wabb's fault.

gatso · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2002, 10:40:12 PM »

Quote

It prolly seems pretty big to the 4am Euro crowd

It is 4am where i am now (UK) There are 450 people in the MA and I am going to bed (I am knackered

) as the bish looks reasonably close to a possible reset. 9am-midday euro time are the problem with less than 100 people on the map, can get awful lonely.

But...

If ya look hard enough and you have a few other guys to work with it can still be great fun as long as you work together. I've found many 3-8v3-8 fights at stupid o'clock EST, it take a bit of effort but is not impossible.

Constructive (I hope) comments on the map...

Yes I would like to see each coutry start with 1 slice for the reasons metioned above.

The brown desert camo texture doesn't bother me too much, but it would be fun to have snow on some of the higher elevations and jungle on the coastline... Anyway I just started flying the C.205 and it seems to blend in pretty well with the desert camo

I would like to see a larger area of water for the CV's in future maps, I know the small water area was a requirement for the pizza map so no blame on the AK's, it might even be a good thing... It will stop us getting bored when/if maps come along with large expanses of water

If I am to be very critical I am not a 100% fan of the regular geometrical shape that the pizza map gives us, initial fronts have no gaps that can be exploited to dive deep into enemy territory, a 'wobblier' (sorry, beer talking) front would give areas where the capture of a couple of bases could make a significant difference. These fields would obviously be highly attractive targets but would also be defended, I have the impression that directly after a reset (and we've had quite a few with all the server crashes) no one is really interested in defence, the emphasis is straight the way on grabbing the maximum number of bases before the opFor wakes up.

I would be quite happy to have this map in tweeked form if it is complimented by a couple of other maps which have different criteria for their design, much as Mindinao was the hilly non-gv map whereas SFMA was the flat super fast reset GV-a-thon and NDisles was the CV map.

Like the pizza map, AK's deserve all due credit for sticking their necks out and doing something constructive.

Gatso

J_A_B · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2002, 11:56:54 PM »

I see the map bases appear to have been reset to a "one country/one slice" setup.

And tonight I was a happy camper

J_A_B

Duedel · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2002, 03:03:45 AM »

It's unbelievible, I'm totally impressed! So many posts and all are constructive interesting and mature. ~~guys, go on!~~

wipass · « **Reply #26 on:** July 08, 2002, 06:30:09 AM »

My first impression of this map was "oh my god, what the heck happened ?" I really thought it was a huge mistake.

However, a few days on and I really like it, if you want to furball, you can, noe a field, easy. Dodge radar and grab alt, it can be done. Play tank commander in ravines, my favourite. (frenchy, where the heck were you hiding ?).

If you forget the pizza shape (I am trying to) it is a superb terrain, fields at 5 k ?? why not ?? Anything that keeps the LA7 jocks down is a good thing in my book. The alts allow different a/c to play in their own domain. Keep it.

In my opinion it only lacks one thing, a decent size ocean to hide a CV in.

To the AK's, don't take any criticism personally, its not intended for you, some just don't like change. I am enjoying it.

Thanks

wipass

Vortex · « **Reply #27 on:** July 08, 2002, 06:31:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
I see the map bases appear to have been reset to a "one country/one slice" setup.

And tonight I was a happy camper

J_A_B

Were the bases reset that way, or was it the result of the fighting/base captures splitting the terrain like that? I know when I logged off this evening things were roughly split to a country per slice. That came as a result of base captures though, not a reset.

Vortex · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2002, 06:42:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by wipass

If you forget the pizza shape (I am trying to) it is a superb terrain, fields at 5 k ?? why not ?? Anything that keeps the LA7 jocks down is a good thing in my book. The alts allow different a/c to play in their own domain. Keep it.

This is one piece of the puzzle I fear is going to change for the worse. The alts of the bases is, imo, one of the best things about this map. Alas the whines by the "My low-alt plane isn't uber here!" crowd has been deafening. Its a shame really as EVERY other map in this game fits the 0-15k pilots perfectly. Get one map that changes that slightly (there's not THAT many high alt bases, most are 5k and below) and folks think the world is coming to an end.

The big downside is that it sounds like HTC didn't raise a hand to these folks and just tell them to wait and let things play out. My understanding is they capitulated already and base alts will be modified. A real shame.

Pooh21 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2002, 07:59:00 AM »

GVs play too big of part on this map, its Aces Flak now. Osties already have a 1 ping= kill advantage. My Il-2 dont work to well at all up the stratosphere. Spawnpoints are too close to towns and hangers at start. My squadmates and I got a base yesterday where we hardly had to move our panzers, we were in range. This morning at v59 a flak was murdering our newbies so I went in my A20 to clear it out he was about 2 K S of vh, I drop 2 eggs and miss, 2 more he is dead. Before I even complete my pullout he is back 2k out again. Spawnpoints are too close! I wanna fight planes mostly. When I wanna fight tanks and kill em I dont want the little roaches popping back up in the same place. Osties should be perked IMO for spawnpoints. On another subject the terrain is too bright or something, as well as some spots looking like various flavors of ice cream or rather nasty it looks like mold. Which btw is porked mold cant grow on Mars, make the terrain color tinted red more, so it looks like those mars crawler pictures.