Open letter for HTC.

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by garrido:
... Soy piloto que ama el BF109, mal piloto si... Supong

Hombree!! Tu por estos lares ... A ver si vuelvo de Brasil y hacemos unas rotes en 109 ... saludos pollo

matias.sanz@lightrio.com.br

[Fishu]

Haha, you don't need more than 4 buttons on your stick and $20 for it.
Thats how I did it in WarBirds and I did use rudder and trims fine, like I still do.

"being elitist" - how about playability? I really don't mind to play some fly-by-wire games or face some people flying against me in fly-by-wire planes just because they didn't want to practice flying but wanted to be killers in the very begining as they get engine on.

"trimming all the time is quite annoying", you don't have to trim all the time, just give one good trim and thats it.

"the flight model is "wacky"", I don't have problems with it after I got used to it.

I've flown whole my age with fairly cheap stuff..
In the begining of AH beta I had P133, with 18 fps being maximum and sub-10 more than half the fight, still I didn't do THAT bad.
Which is more annoying, 4 button cheap stick or FPS below 10?

..I still don't have rudder pedals or throttle or.....
Well, of course you can be from playing the game and stick with WarBirds, so we who wants to qualify flying can fly in peace  

...more realistic WW2 sim?
well, AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state.
If you wan't to know my answer, WWII online seems good so far and it shouldn't be too long till it comes out.

"gimme a break and stop being elitest."
my answer: quit being a dweeb and learn to fly!

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Some points.
Could it be that HT has done some exit surveys and knows that some of the guys that we have enjoyed flying with that left did so for this reason?
This game must be increadibly unrealisic allready if what you are saying is true. I never use trim for anything but keeping the nose down on my b26 during an egress or pulling a g10 out of a fast dive yet I feel I am at least moderatly proficient at ACM. Obviosly there is another level of detail that I have over-looked in the game. I will remap my 3rd top hat to trim and give it a wirl.  
I will continue to play and pay even if they model this feature and view lock and the ME262 and the Panzer V non perked and the Spit XIV and the F86H
Im in for the long run I think.

I look at it like this...I fly the P-38, alot (which is about 1/4 of Cita's time   )

It's always in trim (elevator excluded, but it doesn't make that much of a difference)

I still miss dive bombin regularly. I still die. ALOT. I still can't catch a diving 109 or out turn a Spit V (Well there was that one time...)

Let's wait and see...

- Jig

[GronK]

Amazing. Simply amazing. Folks threatening to quit and arguing pro and con and noone's had a chance to even try it yet. How bouts we ck out the 1.04 features before we start the whine sessions?  

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Jus' cause yer paranoid don't mean I ain't out ta getcha.
GronK

[J_A_B]

"AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state."

--Fishu


I have a question Fishu.  I am assuming that you are speaking about trim, since that's what this thread is about.

How was Aces High's system of trim realistic in any way?   Are you forgetting that most planes DID NOT HAVE pilot-adjustable trim?  

In Aces High, you can manually adjust trim for all three axis, in any plane, while in flight.  That is NOT realistic, in the strict sense of the word, since most planes lacked that ability.

Or how about the 109, which lacked any rudder trim at all?   If you want realism, then shouldn't 109's lack rudder trim?

"Combat Trim"
will not make things any less realistic than they were before.  It will only reduce the necessity of a skill (trimming) which was generally non-existant in real life.

J_A_B

[StSanta]

Well, for a plane lacking any rudder trim, it sure side slips *a lot*. I doubt the sideslip was so severe in real life without the Germans noticing and doing something about it.

Other than that I can only agree. Remove the side slip indicator as well in the 109's, as some models didn't have it. Remove ammo counters on most planes since most didn't have them, adnd those that did had a primitive form not listing actual numbers.

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Dune]

People should read pilot's accounts of combat.  During a dogfight they did three things: Ducked, shot and kept the plane in trim.  

Especially if you were in a P-38J.  My grandfather flew them and said that they were always trimming it.  That was part of the reason they could get such a big plane to perform so well.

Anything that takes away from the mental part of ACM turns any game into more of a FPS.  If don't have to do anything except push the throtle down and shot = QuakeBirds.

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Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Minotaur]

   

By HiTech:
will not make things any less realistic than they were before. It will only reduce the necessity of a skill (trimming) which was generally non-existant in real life.

I was hoping by now that someone with flight time in an actual WW2 plane would have jumped in to this discussion.  The only one I re-call is MigEater, who might qualify.

Until then, I believe HT's statement is very true to real life.  These pilot's did not trim their plane to get a kill.  I doubt that they were complaining to A/C designers at that time that some green (newbie) Allied/Axis combat pilot will get an advantage over them because their high performance A/C trims out such and such so much easier or better.  

Baloney....

When I get beat it is almost for 1 of three reasons.

• I jump in when I should not - HKS (Head in Kazoo Syndrome)
• My defensive SA lapsed
• The other pilot out flies me by using superior ACM

That said I now realize what the fear is.  I believe this fear is the distortion of the FM preventing spins, stall, blackouts etc...

From what I understand, according to HiTech himself, this is not the intention of Combat Trim.  

You either take him at his word and trust HTC's judgement or you do not.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"hehehe...I like this thread squealing Bastids!"
SOB


[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 09-05-2000).]

[J_A_B]

"Especially if you were in a P-38J. My grandfather flew them and said that they were always trimming it. That was part of the reason they could get such a big plane to perform so well."


Yep, later model P-38's were among the planes which actually COULD trim in flight.  That was a real advantage for the planes which had that ability.

Most couldn't.

In Aces High, with its mostly late-war planeset, a larger percentage of the planes probably had pilot-adjustable trim.  Certainly not all of them though.

J_A_B

[HaHa]

Response to Fishu's yabbering:

Haha, you don't need more than 4 buttons on your stick and $20 for it.
Thats how I did it in WarBirds and I did use rudder and trims fine, like I still do.


Uh what are you talking about. All of the good players talk about the latest sticks they have 10+ buttons, with rudder pedals, throttle control etc.. How they can trim all 6 points by simply pressing a few buttons.

I wasn't accusing you of being good.


"being elitist" - how about playability? I really don't mind to play some fly-by-wire games or face some people flying against me in fly-by-wire planes just because they didn't want to practice flying but wanted to be killers in the very begining as they get engine on.


Uh, once again wtf? Flying should be who can "control" and maneuver their plane the best. Not who has the best gear and can trim the plane the best. Yes, during wwII I'm sure trim and such was important but to me, and most people I talk to its annoying as heck. Remember, I'm not saying that trim should be removed, just that there should be an option to help out the newbies.


"trimming all the time is quite annoying", you don't have to trim all the time, just give one good trim and thats it.


Lol, right.. try diving and pick up your speed somewhat.. you have to trim.


"the flight model is "wacky"", I don't have problems with it after I got used to it.


It's being fixed, obviously there was a problem.


..I still don't have rudder pedals or throttle or.....
Well, of course you can be from playing the game and stick with WarBirds, so we who wants to qualify flying can fly in peace  


Get a pilots license if you want to qualify in flying.


...more realistic WW2 sim?
well, AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state.
If you wan't to know my answer, WWII online seems good so far and it shouldn't be too long till it comes out.


I agree with you here. It should be interesting to see how trim and other "features" are implemented in wwIIo


"gimme a break and stop being elitest."
my answer: quit being a dweeb and learn to fly!

Now, now I never said I couldn't fly. I've had my share of decent battles where I've actually won against some of the better pilots (e.g. hangtime). However, for the average smoe, things need to be softened up.

[Fariz]

Step 1: Try new feature.
Step 2: Ask on BB for it to be changed (in a polite way).
Step 3: Wait some time.
Step 4: Flame.

Seems RAM is going the reverse order here   He is on the step 2 with this thread, now we have to wait for step 1  

Fariz.

[This message has been edited by Fariz (edited 09-06-2000).]

[ezdoc]

Well seems to me you might as well be flying an F-16 as opposed to an WWII aircraft with the CT feature.  And if I wanted that, I'll fire up Falcon 4.0

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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"