Author Topic: Anybody seen the lovely new LA police video?  (Read 4174 times)

Offline Ozark

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Anybody seen the lovely new LA police video?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2002, 08:30:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
I can't see as it really matters what happened before the video.  if the cuffs are on and they guy is getting hit, that prety much tells the story.


Ever have a job and get in situations where you said to yourself:
 “Oh toejam! I'm going die!” ?

How much courtesy would you give that person that was willing to kill you just seconds ago.

Hey, I’m the last person who makes excuses for Public Safety personnel who really screwed up!
I’m just saying, let’s get the truth before we fry him.

Offline loser

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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2002, 08:54:48 PM »
Here in Regina SK Canada where i live we had a situation simliar to this about 2 years ago.

A person was pulled over downtown and it was found that the gentleman had an outstanding warrant for his arrest.  (if i recall the charges werent that serious and there was no reason to think this man was violent.)

There were at least 4 officers present.

The man was handcuffed and searched leaning over the hood of his truck.  He was then turned around.  The officer then kicked the man in the shin.  

From my knowledge of acceptable police intervention tactics (relatively slim, but there is knowledge :) ) This is not an effective or common method of dealing with a person.  Especially use on one who is not resisting arrest.  

The person that was under arrest then spit on the officer (which is assault.) The officer then dealt out several closed handed blows to the man's face.  Under Canadian police standards this is not warranted, as an officer can only deliver a reaction equal to or one level above to the action recieved.

Here the officer would have been permitted to use a grappling or restraint method or a an open handed blow.  

Anyway the officer also roughed the guy up on the way to the police car and the man was knocked against the roof of the car before being placed in the back seat.


The result:

The officer was suspend WITH pay until his trial. He was eventually dismissed as were the two other officers that tried to cover for him.  

My feelings:  As public servants and representatives of the crown, police officers must be very careful of what they do when it comes to a physical altercation.  

The guidelines are there, the training is there, the rules are there.  Every officer knows them and knows they must respect and follow them.  I understand that policing is a very stressful job and things do happen, and people heat up and boil over.  BUT....policing is a job where a person cant allow this to happen.

The abuse of authority, especially physical should be condemned and severely punished by all law enforcement agencies.  

In this day and age, with budget cutbacks, fewer officers, more legal red tape, and a general feeling of the "us against them" attitude that is directed to any form of civic authority at any level, the police must establish and maintain a bond of trust and mutual agreement with the public. The police are there to help you, and you are there to help them.  Community policing, neighbourhood watches, police/social programs, neighbourhood/commercial area "beat cop" programs, and overall police/public consensus related to "real concerns" is paramount to the future of policing.  Occurances such as this only drive a wedge between the community and law enforcement.  

This is just my opinion, and i know it is just that, but i dont see the attitudes of the "jurassic pork" being feasible in the future. I have 3 years of justice related university level education and my dad was in the RCMP for ten years..and i have heard many a story and have many a thought on what policing is/should be. But they are just that, my thoughts.




 
Sir Robert Peel:  The police are the public and the public is the police."

Offline SunKing

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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2002, 09:13:21 PM »
My father was CHP, they put up with alot of crap you don't hear about. Spit on, being lied to their face constantly ,disrespected daily ect, the bs builds up. Anyone that especially assults a cop should expect retaliation. Maybe this will be a lesson to the criminals.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2002, 09:14:09 PM »
Yup, what happened seconds before matters a great deal. It may not excuse the behavior, but it might explain it.

Offline Apache

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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2002, 09:16:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ozark


Ever have a job and get in situations where you said to yourself:
 “Oh toejam! I'm going die!” ?

How much courtesy would you give that person that was willing to kill you just seconds ago.

Hey, I’m the last person who makes excuses for Public Safety personnel who really screwed up!
I’m just saying, let’s get the truth before we fry him.


Yep, since 1980.

Courtesy? Not on your life. Excessive force "after" the arrest? Not justified.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2002, 10:04:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gadfly
Don't know anything about this situation, but had I just pulled the skinny perp off a little girl, I would pound him with the cuffs on.

Just an example of a situation.


If it was my daughter you pulled him off I'd thank you and shake your hand.

Just sayin....
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2002, 10:41:10 PM »
You can see the video Here. "Images from the gas station’s surveillance cameras will be viewed to determine what happened" ............ Does it matter?

Offline loser

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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2002, 11:34:20 PM »
that video makes me want to puke.  there is no defense for such and act.  I dont care what happened before that and who it was done to.

every cop in that film outweighed that kid by at least two times. the guy who heroically punched him at least 3.  

use of force LAWS and regulations do not exist after an incident.  even if that KID was brandishing a knife or other weapon (including a firearm.) once he is in custody there is no "after the fact"  face punching privledges.  

as for those of you who say he had it coming for whatever he did....retribution is not justice.

i dont know what that poor KID did, but:


a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye, and in the end....the whole world ends up blind

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2002, 11:39:10 PM »
The only positive aspect was that the officer was not able to deliver a second blow... another officer had his arm.

AKDejaVu

Offline wulfie

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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2002, 02:03:39 AM »
Police officers are trained human beings.

Enough negative feedback and/or stress will defeat training eventually, no matter how good said training is.

I haven't seen this tape. What was described doesn't sound right to me. But I'm not the person to judge him - other police, etc. - sure. They have 'been there and done that'. I have not.

I could never be a police officer - the first time I walked in on a 2 year old with broken arms because he spilled a beer on the joint...well let's just say you'd all be sending me brownies in prison for 25 years to life.

Your average police officer has had to show massive restraint in dozens of situations that no one but him, his partner, and some amazinhunk will ever know about.

My gut instinct nowadays is (sadly) to mistrust any initial press report re: police misconduct. Rodney King was not a 'black motorist' - he was a convicted felon driving at 100+ MPH hopped up on very illegal and unstable drugs. The other occupants of the car listened to the police officers and they didn't get a scratch. It may not have been right - what happened to him. But don't tell me he didn't partially create the situation himself.

It's wrong if this kid got slammed - but I gurantee that he didn't stop when told to stop, act calmly, etc. He didn't get stopped on the sidewalk walking home from church at noon with a can of orange soda in one hand and a bible in the other hand and get beaten out of the blue for no possible reason whatsoever.

Anyone reading this who is or was a police officer - .

Mike/wulfie

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2002, 02:28:51 AM »
Cops aren't perfect. They're just like the rest of us. You gotta check the whole picture before you pass judgement on this guy.

Lets put it in perspective huh...  http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1262249a10,FF.html

Offline Bluedog

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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2002, 03:09:44 AM »
Sort of off topic to the thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway.
In my experience, sure, cops have a tough job, but a lot of the crap and disrespect they get from civvies, they bring on themselves.
I was on my way to work on night at a hotel about 40 minutes drive from my place, I was running a bit late, and was driving at about 10 or 12 kms over the speed limit.
I get pulled up by this copper, who books me for speeding, fair enough, I was speeding, that part didnt worry me...what pissed me off was the fact that he was taking forever, wanted to look in the boot, under the bonnet, checked all the tyres etc, so I said " C'mon mate, I was speeding because I'm late for work, can we hurry things up a bit?"
He stops doing everything, looks at me, and says " #1, I'm no mate of yours and #2, I can take as long as I damn well like to do this" and continues doing whatever roadkill he was doing for another ten minutes, then hands me a ticket.
I got to work 20 minutes late, and pissed off.
the funny thing was, there was an enourmous brawl in the bar that night, and the publican rang the cops to come and help us sort it out....guess who they sent? :)
So, 10 minutes later this cop has his hands REALLY full with this big Samoan bloke, and quite frankly, was getting his arse kicked.....he looks around frantically for the security guys, and spots one...me, helping out a little bloke that had his nose broken in the fight......and says "Give us a hand here would ya mate?"
Lol...I enjoyed seeing at least another 5 or 6 VERY solid left hooks land on the cop's ribs before I decided to lend him a hand.

Any other cop, and he wouldnt have had to ask for assistance, it would have been a given, but this salamander was no mate of mine. :)

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2002, 03:33:10 AM »
Well, this is probably gonna freak you out pretty bad, (considering my line of work) but I'm gonna post it anyway.

Cops are people who risk their lives to make the world safer for the rest of us. Sometimes it might be hard for someone living a normal life to realize exactly what kind of work they have to do. But if you imagine all the stuff that you really really dont want to do yourself, then you have a pretty good picture of what cops do for a living. They are the first ones on the scene when there has been a traffic accident, they are the ones who gets to clean up all sorts of gooey suicides, and they are the ones who gets to wrestle with HIV ridden drug abusers, just so that the rest of us wont have to.

While they are doing this, they get toejam thrown at them from all directions. Always. Nothing seems more populart than squeak and complain over what cops have done, or what they havent done. The media and some liberal types have created standards for cops that are impossible to live up to. And for some reason unbeknownst to me, journalists and liberals seems to hate cops.

Members of the Police, the fire department, paramedics and the military have my deepest respect. They are all heros in my book. Because all of them are risking their lives to keep the rest of us safe. They are the ones standing on a wall.

That means anyone belonging to that category will have an enormous amount of slack when dealing with me. Sure there are bad cops, after all they are just human, and there are bad apples anywhere you look.

My philosphy: be nice to a police officer and he will be nice to you. I have never had any problems with the law or with any cop, and I never will. Because I will always be polite towards a cop, and I will always do what he tells me.

So this cop hit a guy. Yeah, that is bad, and it is against the law. But that guy probably had it coming for some reason. After all, cops just dont go around hitting people for the heck of it. Lesson here: be polite towards cops, and stuff like this wont happen.

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2002, 03:35:13 AM »
I think the cop just lost it and whacked the guy.  As far as the body slam?... seen worse on "Cops".

Years ago, when I was still an SP in the USAF, my boss at the time told me about an incident in which he was a participant.  He and another guy (early 80's) responded to a Domestic.  They show'd up, no answer at the door so they walk in.  They go upstairs and find a young woman (wife) beat bloody and unconsious.   They find a toddler in the same condition (which later died).  They found the wonderful hubby drunk off his butt sitting on his bed.  They arrested him... and upon taking him downstairs he somehow fell, so of course they took him back up to try again.  Apparently it took 3 or 4 tries to get all the way down stairs without falling all before the ambulance show'd up.. and then the idiot couldn't get into the patrol car without smacking his head on the roof.. 3 or 4 times.

Do any good?  Course not.
Did he have it coming?  I think so.
Was it right? Hell no!
Feel good?  Damn straight!

It's not right, but sometimes people lose it, far too often they get away with it too.  I don't think any one person can back up the statement "I would never do that" over the long run.  But I think those that do, and get caught better be ready to accept the consequences of thier actions.  

Personally?  I feel bad for the kid in the video.  I also feel bad for the cop.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he should get away with what he did.  However, I would "think" that he's a good cop that got pushed past his breaking point a long time ago.  Punish the cop, but blame it on crime and judicial leniency.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2002, 05:23:27 AM »
Quote
Ever have a job and get in situations where you said to yourself: “Oh toejam! I'm going die!” ?


ya, that comes up every now and then.  the difference is when we are crippled or killed on the job we get no parade's and the news doesn't petition the public to start funds to feed our widows or put our kids through college.  not that the cops and fireman who die in the line of duty don't deserve it but you'd think they are the only ones who face danger at work.  when I'd bet money if we could sit down and count men lost per man-hour worked, being a cop would be fairly safe compared to what I and many americans do every day.  and nobody jumps up to deffend us if we lose our temper and hit someone(even if they just reciently endangered our life), they just take us to jail.