F4U-4 / P51D Comparisons

[GRUNHERZ]

It is a cool story no doubt! I enjoyed reading it.

I'm even gonna add it to my signature, sorta.

[Red Tail 444]

I cannot quote the source, but my last post came from what I read...if I can find the source again, I will cite it.

Gainsie

[Innominate]

A 20mm cannon option on the f4u-4 might actually be enough to make it worth using...

[whgates3]

from
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_13.html

"Specs of the P-51H-5-NA:

One Packard Merlin V-1650-9 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine rated at 1380 hp for takeoff and a a war emergency power of 2218 hp at 10,200 feet and 1900 hp at 20,000 feet with water injection. Performance: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet, 463 mph at 15,000 feet, and 487 mph at 25,000 feet. Range in clean condition was 755 miles at 359 mph at 10,000 feet, 1975 miles at 239 mph at 10,000 feet. Range with two 62.5 Imp. gall. drop tanks was 1150 miles at 339 mph at 10,000 feet and 1530 miles at 243 mph at 10,000 feet. An altitude of 5000 feet could be reached in 1.5 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. Weights: 6585 pounds empty, 9500 pounds normal loaded, and 11,500 pounds maximum. Dimensions: Wing span was 37 feet 0 inches, length was 33 feet 4 inches, height was 8 feet 10 inches, and wing area was 235 square feet."

apparently it was a lighter weight version of the mustang and a bit easier to kill - if you could catch it

[MiloMorai]

trivia.

The P-51D passed its carrier qualification trial in the fall of 1944, doing so using the USS Shangri-La.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Innominate
A 20mm cannon option on the f4u-4 might actually be enough to make it worth using...

Flown correctly, with good SA, the F4U-4 is a monster. while yanking it around like a TnB a/c will turn it into a tub. Planes like Corsairs, Jugs, and Lightenings are formidible planes when used how they are supposed to be used.

The problem I have is getting every plane in the area trying to bounce me . Even so, this makes me even more aware of my E state, and it keeps my SA on point. I try to think of every plane having a killer in the seat, but the only planes I really  have "issues" with are Jugs and the rare PJ (where are you, guys?) and againse the jug, or anyone, for that matter, a fight at 25+ is a lot of fun in the Hog-4. Win some, lose some.

I admit, I may be a "little" biased when it comes to the much maligned Corsair in the game, but it doesnt deserve the reputation of being a sub-standard A/C, IMO. I get a real feeling of accomplishment even getting a max loaded hog off the CV deck, for cripes sake!


Gainsie

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444


I admit, I may be a "little" biased when it comes to the much maligned Corsair in the game, but it doesnt deserve the reputation of being a sub-standard A/C, IMO. I get a real feeling of accomplishment even getting a max loaded hog off the CV deck, for cripes sake!


Gainsie

Don't get me wrong, I love all of the corsairs, but 50 perks for a plane that performs only slightly better than the p-51D, which also carries gangbang tags makes flying it pointless.  The c-hog is the only prop perk plane worth using.  I find it odd that the c-hog has a better k/d ratio than the f4u4.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Innominate

 The c-hog is the only prop perk plane worth using.  I find it odd that the c-hog has a better k/d ratio than the f4u4.

Agreed, hogs are the only perk props I fly. Gicen the lethalith of the C hog, the k/d ratio is not a suprise, as you can sneeze on a con (usually a spit) with those cannons and saw them in half. My choice for the hog-4 is speed and ROC, but for sheer killing I choose the C also. One hishspeed pass on a buff formation at the right angle can take all three out of the game. I doubt if the hog-4 was unperked, ot given a lower perk cost that it would shift the arena in any way at all. Not enough people fly them anyway.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by J_A_B
The F4U-1D was the P-51D's counterpart; the counterpart to the F4U-4 should be the P-51H.  
J_A_B

Respectfully disagreeing, JAB, the H model never saw, therefore, proven itself, in combat, and was never even produced after 1946. Several models of Corsairs and P-51D's was used as late as 1978.

Gainsie

[gripen]

So far I have not seen a war time comparison which claims that the P-47 or the P-38 could out distance the P-51 in a dive. All I've seen state pretty much opposite.

gripen

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by gripen
So far I have not seen a war time comparison which claims that the P-47 or the P-38 could out distance the P-51 in a dive. All I've seen state pretty much opposite.
gripen

I've read how the jug could out dive anything it encountered. Add a notch of flaps before entering the dive to counter compressibility, and you're home free...against trailing ponies, they will make up the distance once you level out, or against the PJ, dont dtry to resume alt against them.

I'll look for the source, but when I fight against jugs (in any A/C, save another jug, PJ, or F4U-4), the emergency 0G dive out for me is not an option.

Gainsie

[J_A_B]

"Respectfully disagreeing, JAB, the H model never saw, therefore, proven itself, in combat, and was never even produced after 1946. Several models of Corsairs and P-51D's was used as late as 1978. "

You can consider the P-51D and F4U-4 contemporary aircraft in that perspective, but in an aircraft comparison is it really "fair" to compare a new model of plane X to an older model of plane Y?  This sort of comparison serves only a single purpose--to "prove" the writer's point--in this case, to "prove" the F4U-4 is so superior.  

If I wanted to, I could "prove" the P-51 is better than the Corsair, by comparing a P-51H to an F4U-1D.  Would it really prove anything?  Of course not!

From a design evolution standpoint, the P-51's and F4U's match up pretty well.  You have the P-51A and the F4U-1, both the initial model with certain glaring problems (P-51 sucked up high, F4U had lousy handling); the P-51B and F4U-1A as the initial revision; the P-51D and F4U-1D which both had their multi-role abilities improved at a slight cost of performance, and the P-51H and F4U-4/5, the utimate versions of each design.   In comparisons between those airplanes, none is ever really "better" than its counterpart.

In the end though, I still maintain that ANY comparison between aircraft is pointless without also accounting for the job required.

J_A_B

[Halo]

Excellent post, JAB.  With that Ohio location, you are an alumni of Aeronautical Systems Division?

[Red Tail 444]

yeah well, I mixed it up with two Yaks the other night, trying to re-create the account described in this post.

End result... scratch 50 perks

(thinks to self..."superior plane my arse.")

Gainsie

[Widewing]

Originally posted by J_A_B


In the end though, I still maintain that ANY comparison between aircraft is pointless without also accounting for the job required.

J_A_B

Did you actually read the article? It is evaluating Fighter-Bomber performance. In that respect, no P-51 was even close to the F4U-4 in that role. In Korea, Mustangs took heavy losses, suffering nearly four times the losses of the F4U-4 per sortie.

If I had to choose one fighter to fulfill all of the major combat roles, interceptor, escort and ground attack, I'd take the F4U-4 over the P-51D or P-51H. Why, because it can do the job, AND GET YOU HOME. Moreover, it also operates from carriers. In Korea, that was a critical factor because it did not have to fly 2-3 hours just to get to the combat area. Likewise, when Japan was being squeezed in 1945, P-51s were faced with a long flight from Iwo Jima, whereas the F4U-4 was based just 20 minutes out to sea. I have no qualms about stating that the F4U-4 was the best all-around fighter of WWII. I don't have to prove that, because history already has.

Now, that said, I happen to like the P-51D very much. I've been flying it a lot this tour, and have a 17.5/1 K/D ratio in it (35/2). I'll be flying the F4U-4 more as well.

My regards,

Widewing