Author Topic: Iran  (Read 396 times)

Offline Sikboy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6702
Iran
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2002, 09:46:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Montezuma



http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

Or just type Mohammad Mossadegh into the seach engine of your choice.


I have it on good authority that the NY Times supports terrorism ;)

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Samm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Iran
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2002, 09:49:24 PM »
Great sig. Monty

Offline Tumor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4209
      • Wait For It
Iran
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2002, 11:31:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Montezuma


If the CIA (working on behalf of US oil companies) hadn't overthrown Iran's elected leaders to install the Shaw as dictator, maybe they would like us better.


and this has what bearing on things now??
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Samm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Iran
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2002, 02:56:49 AM »
It is relevant to Iran American relations . That is the topic .

Offline Fishu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3789
Iran
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2002, 03:07:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Even before the 1973 coup it was cruel. Someone is reported to say something against the king - and next morning he's gone, and all his family, including all kids and relatives who possibly could have any reason for blood revenge... If this state of affairs is OK for you - then everything was beautiful.


Erm...  where did I say what kind of times those were?
I only said the history would be good read, nothing of what it was like.
You're simply assuming way too much..

Top of it all, you could just as well say "If this state of affairs is OK for you - then everything was beautiful" to yourself, since you believe in Soviet honesty so blindly - you become yourself  as well guilty of things you accuse westerners about.

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Iran
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2002, 09:24:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu


Erm...  where did I say what kind of times those were?
I only said the history would be good read, nothing of what it was like.
You're simply assuming way too much..

Top of it all, you could just as well say "If this state of affairs is OK for you - then everything was beautiful" to yourself, since you believe in Soviet honesty so blindly - you become yourself  as well guilty of things you accuse westerners about.


I don't think it was good.

Just tried to answer the question. The source is one of my Father's friends who was an advisor in Afghanistan for some time.

And I don't accuse Westerners of that state of affairs. Afghanistan was more a mistake of Soviet diplomacy...

Offline babek-

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
      • http://members.tripod.com/KG51EDELWEISS
Iran
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2002, 03:30:35 PM »
Its helpful to check the history of Iran.

Iran is a very old culture.

Its 2500 years old history didnt ended, when Alexander the Great destroyed the Achaemenid Dynasty in the 4th century BC.
Soon after Alexanders death the macedonian dynasty of the Seleucids in Iran lost their power to the iranian Parthian dynasty which existed until the year 250. The the Sassanid dynasty came to power - a very mighty power which was a major rival of the Roman Empire. More than one roman emperor died in battle against the heavily armored knights of the iranian Sassanids - but finally they were overrun in the 7th century by the islamic arabs.

And again Iran was succesful to avoid to be assimilated.  They saved their own iranian language - the Farsi - while other old cultural nations like Egypt or Syria gave up their original language and became assimilated by the Arabs.
They even changed the islamic religion and developed the Shiite Islam.

After the Arabs were kicked out of iranian territories, iranian dynasties ruled again - like the Safawid-dynasty.

But after the 18th century Iran became a puppet of other major powers in the region. The Zand and the Kadjar dynasty had weak Shahs and so iranian policy was dictated by the Russian Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire.

In WW1 - when Iran wanted to be neutral - its neutrality was ignored and it became a battlefield and marching zone for british, russian and turkish troops.

After WW1 in the 1920ties the father of the 1979-deposed Shah deposed the last Kadjar Shah and became the first Shah of the shortliving Pahlevi dynasty.

He wanted to make Iran to a modern and western- oriented country like Turkey under Ataturk.

Also Iran and the German Reich worked together before and during the early phase of WW2. Iranian troops even weared german-style uniforms and helmets.

In WW2 - like in the WW before - Iran declared its neutrality.
Nevertheless in 1941 it was occupied by british and soviet forces, the Shah was deposed, sent to exile to South Africa, where he died and he was replaced by his son who was nothing more than a puppet who finally declared war against Germany in 1943.
During WW2 Iran was a marching zone for allied supplies for the USSR.

After WW2 the USA diplomacy forced the british and the soviets to retreat from Iran.
So it was logical that there were very close ties between the USA and Iran. By order of the Shah the whole society should change in a US-american style.
Also the army and the equipment was changed and Iran got the finest US-weapons - including later the F14.

But in the 50ties something happened which fueled the hate of the people against the USA.

The elected prime minister Mossadegh - a highly respected man - deposed in an unbloody coup the Shah and sent him to exile to Italy.

But the CIA reinstalled the Shah and deposed Mossadegh who died under house arrest. The coordination of this CIA actions was done in the US-embassy in Teheran.

The Shah was paranoid after his return and built - again with help of the CIA - the feared SAVAK. This was the secret police of the Empire - much like the GeStaPo. Many people - most of them moderate democrats - just vanished.
Also many innocent peole - who never have been politically active - were tortured or simply killed.

So the anger of the people was growing and finally escalted in the revolution against the Shah in 1979.
The moderate opposition forces have been crippled effectivly by the SAVAK so radicals could get the power in Iran.
Also the attack of Iraq against Iran stopped the inner political fightings in Iran and Khomeini had the absolute power in Iran.

The fact that Carter was such a weak president and that the superpower USA was dishonored by the iranian radicals who were taking hostages from the embassy for such a long time and without an effective US counter operation helped the radicals to believe that they were invincible.

Over 1 million iranians had to pay with their lifes for this during the war against Iraq.


But today Iran is changing again. Its actual leader - President Chatami - a moderate politician - has been elected the second time - although the radical mullahs under the successor of Khomeini, Ajatollah Khamenei, demanded from the people to vote for the other candidate.

So the power of the radical mullahs is shrinking. Its a long a complicated operation Chatami and the moderate iranian politicians have started. They have to fear counter operations from the radicals.
But they have the support of their people.

So there is really hope that Iran will change its political system within the next decade.

Offline Sikboy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6702
Iran
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2002, 07:32:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by babek-
Its helpful to check the history of Iran.



Thanks Babek, that was a pretty nice summation :)

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Iran
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2002, 08:00:37 AM »
That history of Iran makes that country look like it changes sides more often than I change my underwear...which isn't often..."I rarely wear underwear..and when I do it's usually something pretty exciting." (Bill Murray - Stripes);)
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain