Tuskegee airmen

[Hristo]

Saw the movie yesterday...all in all a nice piece.

As for combat scenes, yuck. Those Buchons were flown by half-idiots !

Did US filmmakers ever hear of Hartmann, Rall, Barkhorn and others ? Is there any movie that even remotely suggests that LW had actually pilots with more than 1 victory ? So far I have seen LW pilots making a kill where they wound a poor American plane. They are readily punished and explode in mid air after a Rambo "you'll pay for this Jerry" burst, while our dying hero has the time to make his poetic last speech.

If Allied aces with 9.124 kills are portrayed as uberhumans kicking LW but around, I can only imagine how would a film of Hartmann look. Demolition man, anyone ?

[Masherbrum]

The Tuskegee Airmen were bad asses.  The Germans got to know the "Red Tails".

I don't think a movie of Hartmann would ever get to production.  I mean the German art that is stored in the National Archives will NEVER be in Germany again.

Masher

[AKDejaVu]

Tuskegee Airmen did not have an outstanding record against LW fighters.  But LW fighters did not have an outstanding record against them either.

The outstanding part came in the form of not a single bomber being lost to enemy fighters while they were flying escort.

No matter how you spell it out... that is outstanding and no amount of tossing out LW aces names will overshadow that.

For every Ace there's 5 victims.  And how many pilots for either side had less than 5 kills?  How many had 1 kill and then died?

I don't believe the movie indicated that the Airmen were invincible... seems one of them died every time LW planes were involved (even though a LW plane wasn't necessarily shot down).

Leave it to an LW pilot to complain that things were modeled historically.

AKDejaVu

[Curval]

Originally posted by Hristo
Saw the movie yesterday...all in all a nice piece.

As for combat scenes, yuck. Those Buchons were flown by half-idiots !

Did US filmmakers ever hear of Hartmann, Rall, Barkhorn and others ? Is there any movie that even remotely suggests that LW had actually pilots with more than 1 victory ? So far I have seen LW pilots making a kill where they wound a poor American plane. They are readily punished and explode in mid air after a Rambo "you'll pay for this Jerry" burst, while our dying hero has the time to make his poetic last speech.

If Allied aces with 9.124 kills are portrayed as uberhumans kicking LW but around, I can only imagine how would a film of Hartmann look. Demolition man, anyone ?

Not sure if I remember the Rambo scene...but I do recall the scene in which the guy from the Cosby show went after a group of German planes, against orders.  He was very skillfully cut off from his buddies, shot down and was killed.

I think their (Tuskegee airmen's) record in the air speaks for itself and the show was a fair reflection of that.

[Eagler]

Taking nothing away from the Tuskegee group, met one at an airshow in Lakeland once, but due to there late deployment and then the location of their deployment, they did have it "easier" than the earlier pilots.

[Hristo]

3 P51s met 4 higher Buchons. One of the P51 (Malcolm Jamal Warner) went to attack them. One Buchon got on his six and wounds him. Lt. Lee (Morpheus from Matrix ) says : "why don't you fight me instead, Jerry ?" and promptly forces the Buchon to run away. Other P51 stays for cover.

Question - where were 3 other Buchons ?

Second battle. Fortresses were attacked by Buchons again. A guy named train shoots 2 of them, both exploded beautifully. Another Buchon gets behind him and mortally wounds him. Here comes our Rambo Morpheus and dispatches the Buchon who again explodes beautifully.

Questions - who used cannons, p51s or 109s ?

I'd really like to see the action where Hartmann shoots 4 P51s filmed - but who knows, maybe there would be Morpheus to chase him away .

Or Rudorffer's 13 kill sortie.

Or Marseille's 17 kill in a day.

Or Lang's 18.

Private Ryan has one particularly stupid scene. Both Germans and Americans are facing each other, pointing guns, a group of Americans shoots the Germans from above. Germans don't fire a single shot, no American is even wounded. A US officer saying "Gee, thanks !" should be appropriate end to the scene .

That crap made my fly LW in these sims in the first place. A constant image of underdog.

[Curval]

Fair enough...saw the film a long time ago.

I would like to see a flim on Hartmann personally...or any of the top German aces.

You are right...they were incredible pilots.

[Nath[BDP]]

A movie encompassing both sides during Western or Eastern front air war would suffice.

I'm going to start writing the screenplay soon.

[LePaul]

Ok, oddly enough, I can't blow up a ship with a P-51D like they did  

Hollywood at its finest or... ?  

[midnight Target]

Private Ryan has one particularly stupid scene. Both Germans and Americans are facing each other, pointing guns, a group of Americans shoots the Germans from above. Germans don't fire a single shot, no American is even wounded. A US officer saying "Gee, thanks !" should be appropriate end to the scene .

Without trying to start a "Nazi hero" thread, the above scene is very similar to action that my Uncle experienced in France. He landed on D-Day +5. He often told of the time his squad came around a corner and were face to face with a German squad. They just stared at each other for a long time. When I would ask what happened next, he just would say, "well I'm here".

[Hristo]

Hmm, if I had a sponsor, I'd do an all CG movie. At least combat scenes would feature historical stuff.

Anyone willing to support the idea ?

j/k, the amount of work would require years for one person...

[Krusher]

Originally posted by midnight Target


Without trying to start a "Nazi hero" thread, the above scene is very similar to action that my Uncle experienced in France. He landed on D-Day +5. He often told of the time his squad came around a corner and were face to face with a German squad. They just stared at each other for a long time. When I would ask what happened next, he just would say, "well I'm here".

Meeting engagements like the one your uncle faced were pretty common. The guys who reacted first got to say "well I'm here"

A friend of mine was a Abrams commander in the gulf war. He tells me that they ran right through the middle of a Republican gaurd tank unit one night. Before the Gaurd could respond they had eliminated them to the last tank. Oh btw they never stopped moving and did all of it on the go.

[Masherbrum]

The only reason I said "feared" was because of the fact that they held off all LW pilots from shooting down a Buff.  Sorry for the confusion gent's, I could have been more clearer.  

Masher

[midnight Target]

And btw, The heroics of the Airmen came not from their actions against the enemy, but from their actions period. They kicked the door down and kept it open for future generations.

[Curval]

Originally posted by midnight Target
And btw, The heroics of the Airmen came not from their actions against the enemy, but from their actions period. They kicked the door down and kept it open for future generations.

I think that it came from their flying too...but you are spot on midnight.