Bomber Surprise

[Halo]

With all the hoopla about the 3-bomber formations, I thought 1.10 would be the era of the bomber.  Big surprise -- just the opposite.  So far the bomber trios have been just juicier targets for interceptors and maybe even less a bomb threat than ever because the bombsights are so difficult to use, let alone master.

I thought three sticks of bombs would clobber just about any target, but even with three Lancs, they're just a line of 52 thousand-pound bombs that only hurt whatever happens to be in their line without near the spread I inaccurately envisioned.  

Is that how real bombsights are calibrated?  If so, kudos to the real bombardiers.  Their life is much more difficult than I imagined.

I've given it a good try, but I cannot set that bombsight by holding the joystick over a spot for two seconds and hitting the y key.  Sure, I've gotten it set several times, but I can't figure where the bombs are going to hit anyway.  

I've read many of the posts with information about bombing, but I just can't fathom the infinitely varying y spots which for me so far have only a vague correlation about where I release the bombs and where they hit.  

I realize that's the idea.  Real strategic bombing takes a lot of training and precision setting and hold-still bomb runs.  

And it's a very good thing the absurd laser-guided bombs are gone.  

However ... for playability, the bombsights are too difficult for most players, from what I've seen.  Don't know what the solution should be, and sure don't want to go back to laser-guided bombs.

Meanwhile, like so many posts I've read, I'm having more fun than ever in jabo -- in them, life seems doable again, and I can play and have fun instead of feeling I'm in a graduate course in navigation and bombing.

So contrary to my expectations, 1.10 so far ushers in not the Era of the Bomber but the Era of the Jabo.

[Yeager]

Well...all I can say, or should, is: Look out!

There is a ready room full of fellas that have taken the time to master the skills neccessary to doing a good job at level bombing.

Hell...it took me a week to figure out that I needed to slew the damned bombsight in calibration mode (both vertical and horizontal to maintian my selected calibration point).  The only draw back to the new system for me is the time it takes to reverse on a field for a second or third pass without losing the AI bombers -but I feel that this is a natural evolution of the game, and a much needed and appreciated one at that.

Im totally plussed by the new system.

[SKurj]

Halo.. not sure but by reading the above u don't say that u HOLD the y key while holding the spot in your xhairs...


You need to HOLD the Y key while you are holding the point in the xhairs..  What i do is find a spot, hold it for a second then hit and hold the Y key all the while holding the point in the xhairs.  I hold this for 3-5 secs minimum and then i release Y key.

even after all that I still can't hit %$#%$#!


SKurj

[Chairboy]

I've figured out how to use the new calibration system, but the new system really seems to discourage bombers.

Additionally, the perk system w/ the Arado is ridiculous.  HT said that bombs would be less accurate, but noted that the fix for that was that you would drop three times as many.

So basically, when you fly the arado now, you get the effective fire-on-target of the old Arado, but it costs 3x as much?  C'mon.

[BGBMAW]

ya i took a gaggle of arados out last nigh...wha a pain in the ass...

just taking off is horrible..
It was succeful..but really not worth it...

How about..arados only with the old laser guided bom sights???

lolo

im now 4 for 4 vs/ CV in my box of 17's.... I drop all 36 500lbs..from 11k....  .06 delay:)

But against airfields im about 4 for 10..Its getting me pissed off....

I feel like i do everything the same way each time....But they are diff hits???    I figured out if you are above 14k  you have to go east-west directions or the wind blows them away....WHY doenst this Super Bom sigth calibrate for that>????

Other then that ..I kil many a ftr who attaks me:)

Love BiGB
xoxoxo

[Wotan]

The ARADO didn't bomb like we do in ah. If we ever get that pesky periscope to work

As the Ar-234 landed at high speed, it had a drag chute as standard equipment; it was one of the first aircraft to do so. The rounded nose of the aircraft was covered with plexiglas, giving the pilot an excellent view to the front, but no view to the back except through a periscope. The periscope, which was not provided in the Ar-234 prototypes, also served as a sight for dive-bombing attacks.

There was no ejector seat. The pilot got into and out of the aircraft through a transparent hatch on top of the cockpit. Getting out of the Ar-234 in an emergency was not a trivial task.

The Ar-234 handled very well at all speeds and was capable of all aerobatics. The worst operational problem was the unreliability of the Jumo 004B engines, which required overhaul or replacement after about ten hours of operation. The brakes also tended to wear out after about three landings and so had to often be replaced.

The fuel consumption of the Jumos varied widely with altitude. At 10,000 meters, it was a third of what it was at sea level. This meant that for low-altitude bombing missions, the operational radius of the aircraft was only about 190 kilometers (120 miles), while in high-altitude reconnaissance operations the range was as much as 720 kilometers (450 miles) with the drop tanks.

When operated as a bomber, the Ar-234 could be used in shallow dive attacks, low-level horizontal attacks, or high-altitude horizontal attacks. In shallow dive attacks, the pilot would drop from about 5,000 meters to under 1,500 meters, aiming the bombs through the periscopic sight that stuck up above the cockpit.

In low-level horizontal attack, used only when the target was obscured, the pilot simply flew level and dropped the bombs when it seemed appropriate. Results were not generally very impressive.

High-altitude horizontal attacks were particularly interesting. Since the Ar-234 was a single-seat aircraft, the pilot had to double as the bombardier, and did so with the help of a sophisticated Patin autopilot system. The pilot would fly to within about 30 kilometers of the target, engage the autopilot, swivel the control column out of his way to the right, and then lean over and sight the target through the Lotfe 7K bombsight.

The bombsight was linked to the autopilot. As long as the pilot held the target in the crosshairs, the autopilot would change the aircraft's heading accordingly, and then the bombsight would automatically drop the bombs at the right moment.

In principle, the Ar-234B had a pair of fixed rearward-firing 20-millimeter guns for protecting its tail, with the pilot sighting the guns through the periscope. Not only did the pilot have to be his own bombardier, he was his own tail gunner as well. However, in practice the guns were not always fitted and were never an important feature of the aircraft.

[Halo]

Yeah, guys, thanks for the responses.  I really do like and appreciate the new bombing system, but I lament its steep learning curve.  

I think I've been holding the y and even working the slew, but what really bugs me is having to guess what it all means.  For example, all that messing with the joystick just strikes me as too cumbersome.  

And after all that, if I do line the bomb sight up perfectly, and it should be calibrated for proper alt and airspeed, the bombs never hit the x, usually going long.  After going to all that trouble, it seems the bombs should fall where you aim, right?

I usually bomb around 10k so wind shouldn't be another factor (and don't bombers have some way of compensating for wind too?).

The bombing was a great challenge at first, but after many attempts with erratic results it became frustrating and no fun.
Hard to enjoy a system that the more you try, the dumber you feel.

My major complaint is the seemingly randomness of the y point calibration, picking any point you want in the whole view.  Every time you set a different point, the bombsight view looks different.  I guess that's the point, but it's too difficult for me so far, and I've seen a lot of posts by people who are not interested in investing the time and effort to bomb (good double entendre) that I have so far.

I do like the 1.10 play more than ever, including the bombing changes.  I suppose enough people will master the new techniques so eventually I'll catch on by osmosis.  But for the time being, my rewards are not in horizontal bombers except for shooting them down.

[Yeager]

so eventually I'll catch on by osmosis
====
Hehe...thats all Ive ever done.  In fact, still doing it

[Shiva]

Is that how real bombsights are calibrated? If so, kudos to the real bombardiers. Their life is much more difficult than I imagined.

In actuality, it was a great deal uglier than that.

You can look at the procedure to initialize and calibrate the Norden bombsight if you want to be thankful you don't have to go through all that. The process in AH is loosely similar to the actual process, except that with the real Norden, once you've got the target set up in the sight your bombs drop automatically.

[Pooh21]

I can hit with the Norden, its easy. Killed 2 hangers 1st ever try (dumb luck that was). I can hit the field which is accuracy enough for me, I use B-17s and carpet bomb with 500s

[Seeker]

Which version of the Arado had a landing skid? Most of the film I've seen of Arados (eastern front) has them landing on a central ski.

It looks a wild ride, I'd love to see some one risk perkies that way

[Wotan]

The Ar-234 was originally conceived in early 1941 by an engineering team under Professor Walter Blume, director of the Arado aircraft company. The design project was codenamed E370, and was in response to a German Air Ministry requirement for a fast reconnaissance aircraft.

The E370 was to be a sleek, high-winged aircraft with a pair of Junkers Jumo 004 turbojets, one under each wing. The Air Ministry wanted a range of 2,150 kilometers (1,340 miles), and so to reduce weight, Arado proposed that the E370 would take off on a wheeled tricycle trolley that would be left behind after take-off, and land on skids at the end of the flight.

Skids would also be built under the engines to prevent them from being damaged on landing. The pilot would be able to steer the nosewheel of the take-off trolley, while the main wheels would have hydraulic brakes, controlled by the cockpit rudder pedals.

Arado projected a maximum speed of 780 KPH (485 MPH), an operating altitude of almost 11,000 meters (36,000 feet), and a maximum range of 2,000 kilometers (1,250 miles). The range was a little less than what the Air Ministry wanted, but they liked the design anyway, and ordered two prototypes. The aircraft was given the military designation Ar-234. Additional prototypes would be ordered presently.

The two prototypes were largely complete before the end of 1941, but the Jumo 004 engines weren't ready, and wouldn't be ready until 1943. In February 1943, Arado finally got a pair of Jumo 004As. However, these engines were only cleared for static and taxi tests. At the time, Messerschmitt had priority for engine deliveries, and Arado had to accept what they could get.

* Flight-qualified engines were finally delivered late that spring, and the Ar-234 made its first flight on 30 July 1943. The initial flights went smoothly, except that on the first two takeoffs the parachutes that were intended to soft-land the take-off trolley didn't deploy, and the trolley was wrecked in both cases.

By September, four prototypes were flying. However, back in early July, even before the first flight, the Air Ministry had been seriously considering building a bomber version of the Ar-234. Orders were placed for two prototypes of such a bomber variant, with the designation Ar-234B.

Since the aircraft was too slender to carry the bombs internally, the bombs would have to be carried on external racks. This made the skid-landing scheme impractical, and so the bomber would have conventional tricycle landing gear.

The skid landing scheme had proven conceptually flawed anyway. Skid landings were a rough and doubtful proposition, and once an Ar-234 had landed, it was effectively immobile for the twenty minutes it took to jack it up and put it back on its trolley. With Allied air attacks increasing over the Germany, skid landing made the aircraft far too vulnerable to destruction on the ground.

* The Ar-234 program suffered a tragic setback when the second prototype crashed due to an engine failure on 2 October 1943, killing its pilot. Nonetheless, Adolf Hitler and other top-ranking Nazis saw a prototype on static display at an airshow in East Prussia in late November and were very impressed. The program was given the highest priority.

Work intensified on a prototype of the Ar-234B variant, while four more trolley-mounted Ar-234 prototypes were completed. The fifth prototype incorporated new Jumo 004B-0 engines, which had the same thrust rating of 840 kilograms (1,850 pounds) as the Jumo 004As used in the first four prototypes, but weighed 90 kilograms (200 pounds) less. The seventh prototype was similar.

The sixth and eighth prototypes were intended to study powerplant schemes to be used on advanced versions of the aircraft to follow the Ar-234B. They were both powered by four 800 kilogram (1,760 pound) thrust BMW 003 turbojets. The BMW 003 had less thrust than the Jumo 004B, but the BMW engines were much lighter, and increased the overall thrust-to-weight ratio of the aircraft.

The sixth prototype had the four BMW engines in separate nacelles, while the eighth prototype clustered them in pairs under each wing. The paired nacelle scheme proved more satisfactory than the four separate jets, which led to aerodynamic troubles.

All the prototypes starting with the third had provision for rocket-assisted takeoff. A rack was fitted under each outer wing to carry a bottle-shaped Walter 109-500 rocket, powered by hydrogen peroxide and sodium permanganate. Each rocket weighed about 280 kilograms (617 pounds), and was capable of generating 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) of thrust for 30 seconds.

The rockets were dropped by parachute after the Ar-234 was airborne. The aircraft incorporated a scheme of pressure switches that sensed whether the rocket units were delivering thrust or not. If one did not generate thrust, the other was automatically shut down to prevent it from slewing the aircraft around.

The ninth prototype was the first Ar-234B, with a built-in undercarriage, and first flew in March 1944. By this time, production lines were being set up to build the aircraft in quantity, and the first of 20 pre-production Ar-234Bs came off the line in June.

However, ambitious plans for massive production of new variants had to be scaled back. During the last week of February 1944, the Allies pounded German aircraft factories and seriously damaged production capacity. While the "Big Week" raids had spared Arado production facilities, as they were too far east and out of range, the following reshuffling and dispersal of production meant that resources originally planned for building new types of aircraft had to be reserved for manufacturing existing types.

* That same March, the fifth and seventh prototypes were equipped with cameras and handed off to a special Luftwaffe reconnaissance unit for operational readiness tests, in preparation to fielding the Ar-234B. The Allied invasion of France was to then give the aircraft an excellent opportunity to prove themselves. Allied fighters were doing such a good job of protecting the Normandy beachhead from German reconnaissance aircraft that Wehrmacht commanders were completely in the dark about enemy intentions.

The Ar-234, with its high speed, seemed likely to penetrate Allied fighter screens, and on 25 July the two aircraft left Germany for France. One had to turn back, but the other arrived safely, only to wait a week for the take-off trolley, rocket booster units, and other kit to arrive by truck.

The first operational flight took place on 2 August 1944, when Leutnant Erich Sommer took his Ar-234 on a reconnaissance flight over the beachhead, cruising at about 740 KPH (460 MPH) at above 9,200 meters (30,000 feet). Two Rb 50/30 aerial cameras were mounted in the rear fuselage, each canted 12 degrees from the vertical in opposite directions. At operating altitude, they took one set of pictures every 11 seconds, imaging a swath almost 10 kilometers wide across the direction of flight.

Sommer came and went unhindered. Altitude and speed kept him safe, and in fact he wasn't even detected. The images he returned showed a buildup of more than 1.5 million men and a matching amount of supplies and weapons.

That day the second Ar-234 finally arrived, and over the next three weeks the two machines flew 13 more missions without interference from Allied defenses. They returned high-quality intelligence data, but they only confirmed in detail what the Wehrmacht ground commanders knew only too well: the Germans were being beaten by an overwhelmingly superior adversary.

The results of this became apparent to the jet pilots, when they were forced to withdraw to Holland in early September. This did not take them out of harm's way; their airfield at Volkel was plastered by 100 Royal Air Force (RAF) Lancasters in a daylight raid on 3 September 1944. The Ar-234s were then withdrawn back to Germany. By this time, Ar-234Bs were available for operational use and the prototypes were no longer needed.

Arado 234

[Seeker]

Thanks!

[Otto]

I think the issue is the large map.  The new system works (for me) when I can weave between radars and arrive at the target undetected.  
   With the small map, this is almost impossiable.

[Innominate]

The problems with bombers now have nothing to do with the difficult of calibration.  The problem is that bombers now are forced to do one pass, on a target which is usually very spread out.  The result is that hitting a field, a bomber formation with a perfect calibration will be lucky to kill two or three ANYTHING in one pass.  Also problems are the fact that strat bombing is pointless, as it has little effect, especially on akdesert.  The worst though is that bombers are taking some of the same damage.  When you hit one bomber, sometimes the other bombers will also take that damage.

I've seen it a number of times before while in a buff(check the bug board)  And just last night, I shot the wingtip off of a b17, he bailed, out, and the next plane also started spiraling down, then he did it again, and the last one spiraled into the ocean.

A formation of buffs now, is about as difficult to kill as a 1.09 lone buff.