why no wirblewind ??

[LoGo]

you couldn't place a reload time on the osty, I've seen footage of a 37mm in action, the loader was dropping rounds in the hopper/magazine while it was firing. HTC needs to review ( ie introduce ) armor into AH, I think the main prob with GV's is each hit ( from MG's even ) is classed as a penetration, it would explain the inconsistent GV kills, if a round hits where you are currently 'sitting' then it classes it as that position 'dying'

could be a complex mathematical equation for all I know, either way, GV's need a major overhaul, I just hope HTC can find the time to do it.

[Pongo]

Do you have footage of an ostwind driving cross country firing a 1000 round burst?

[LoGo]

the osty did carry 1000rnds and there is no reason it couldn't fire on the move (albeit inaccurately), I think it should be perked (lightly) only because so few were produced.

If you can't kill an osty without him killing you it's your own fault, I have little trouble killing osties whether its with bombs rockets or guns, when I get destroyed by one it's only because A: I took an unnecessary risk or B: I wasn't thinking.

[eddiek]

........at least model it to do what it was built to do, provide AA coverage!
The BS of it killing everything it gets in range of is way out of hand.  I found a website that listed the penetration values of the FLak 43 cannon, which most sources I have found is supposed to be the weapon, unlike the AH vehicle info page with lists the FLak 18 as the weapon ( what the difference is between the two, I have no clue).
Here is the site link:

http://www.panzerworld.net/APT.htm

I haven't been able to find more in depth sources, but it would seem that an effective AA  platform would use timed shells or proximity shells, no?
If so, please make the Osty loadout either AA or AT, not a mix of the two.

[Karnak]

LoGo,

What is your AH game ID?

[Hangtime]

If you can't kill an osty without him killing you it's your own fault, I have little trouble killing osties whether its with bombs rockets or guns, when I get destroyed by one it's only because A: I took an unnecessary risk or B: I wasn't thinking.

LoGo yer as full of crap as the thanksgiving turkey.

Just thought you'd like to know.

[brady]

I agree compleatly with LoGo, I personaly have no problem killing osty's, and most of the people I kill with my osty do something stupid like fly right at me.

 I always stop to fire on planes, extreamly hard to shoot on the run in an ostwind.

 They were made to fire non stop, thats why it has a tray loading system, as apposed to box magizines like to 20mm AA guns.

 Other countries had mobile armored AA guns, the Russian SU 37 comes to mind, would you rather they had modeled it instead?

 Firing at the turet from a steap angle almost always kills it( the open aspect).

 The Problem with perking the ostwind is that if you do you will severly limit the GV aspect of game play. The only GV that that I have to work to kill in AH is the osty, everything else is just easy meat, h!ll I had a yak9u take out my freaking panzer yesterday,

 Personaly, and this is just an observation, i realy feal this anti osty stuff is because people are just to lazy to take the time to get a Jabo and just bomb them, or to set them up.

[SunKing]

Too much LW stuff in AH already!

Never

[Hangtime]

chit, Brady, if it's just you vs an osty, he'll kill yah. Can't dive bomb him or gun him without flyin at him.

Back in the old version I'd just level bomb em into oblivion. Now, level bombing an ostie is impossible.. and you can plunk 1000 or 500 pounders down 10 feet from him without him gettin any damn damage at all.

Runnin anything down the pie hiole of an ostie while it's shootin at yah is suicide.

So, if yer willin to 'distract' the ostie while yer buddie makes a straffing run with his typhoon, like as not the typhie will only make him smoke while his bullcrap kevlar armor on the turrent just shrugs off the rounds.

Thats an open turrent top. I can't count the times i've hosed em from dead verticle only to have the engine smoke while he continues to pound away.

I think the ostie is an outrageously over-modeled piece for dung, and would love to see it perked up the wazoo.

[LoGo]

Karnak, if you want to check my stats you wouldn't be suprised, osties have killed me many times, I do get shot down by them frequently, if I am assisting a base attack (which I frequently do) and the VH is up (which it frequently is) I'm one of the many who will drop what they're doing and thoughtlessly attack it to kill it before it gets to the town to screw the goon (which they frequently do).

my point is the problem isn't the osty but the tactics people use against it, if your attacking a base - kill the VH first, if an osty is attacking a town - leave it alone and hunt the M3 or hit him while he's shelling the town, if your in a Pz - keep your aproaches distant or prepare to die (problem in this case is not osty but AH's armor modelling), if you have to kill the osty take your time - orbit him at about 2k and make fast spiralling HIGH ANGLE testing passes, never commit to an attack, if you see tracers abort.

Usually you won't be alone ( if you are, again, it's your own stupid fault ) so pair up against him, one draws fire while the other bounces him

If I can take my time with the osty I WILL kill it unscathed, but usually I'm impatient and go in without care (it is after all a game) I blame my own actions not the osties 'uberness', people who do are as unreasonable as HO whiners.

[Innominate]

The thing with the osty isnt that it's gun is too powerfull.  The problem is that, the ONLY way to kill one is either, bombs, rockets, or REPEATED strafing passes.  Bombs are the only safe way to do it.

How many people circle around fields they're attacking carrying bombs for dealing with GV's?  Especially when there are enemy fighters around.  A single flak panzer should never be able to fend off a  base attack just because the attackers have dropped thier bombs on field targets.

Flak panzers should either be vulnerable to strafing(How many rounds can go into that turret without injuring someone inside it?!) or perked.  The m-16 is a very effective air defense vehicle, the reason the flak panzer is worth using is, an m16 will die to a strafing run, an ostwing just gets an easy target.

[GRUNHERZ]

I say replace Ostwind with Wirbelwind.

Here's why:

No more all in wonder unit, if the 20mm cannon are modeled decently it will not kill tanks so easily as Ostwind. It will also not kill hangars so easliy.

It will be more effective in air defense due to higher ROF and better tracking.

Wouldnt everyone benefit from the switch?

[CptTrips]

>I say replace Ostwind with Wirbelwind.

Hmmm Grunherz makes a good point.

I'd prefer to add the Wirbelwind and then perk the osti.

Wab

[CptTrips]

I still think the damage model on the osti is off a bit.  I know you CAN kill them, but I think the hardness for an open copola is too high.  I think they're considering the hardness of the metal gun and not the soft, jelly-like organisms in the open copola operating it.

Wab

[LoGo]

you would see this subject brought up all over again, the Wirblewind is far more effective than the Ostwind, the Wirblewind would (in seconds) shatter any GV within 2k and no aircraft in your sights would complete a pass on you.

lightly perk the osty to reduce its numbers and heavily perk the Wirblewind (IF introduced) because it is FAR more effective than the osty.

another fix would be to create two GV spawnpoints at each airfeild, the second being further behind the first just for AA vehicles, they are not offensive weapons and this would cripple their use as such.

and again, armor in AH is non-existent and needs to be implemented in some form (a simple 'weapon X' can't hurt 'Y section of armor' would suffice), this would solve the flak vehicles' uberness in ground combat.