Author Topic: AlGore was Right!  (Read 1360 times)

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2002, 07:03:59 PM »
Not that I dislike rush, I dont. But I dont need to listen to him to casue my disbelief in that theory. Sorry, that is just a bunch crap that you are spewing.
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Offline koala

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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2002, 07:36:56 PM »
It's amusing how many dolts actually believe that man is the main reason for global warming.  But hey, we humans need to feel guilty about almost everything we do, so I understand the psychology behind this issue as well.

Offline LAGUERRE

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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2002, 07:44:19 PM »
Man was the cause of the last ice age...hehehehehehehe, and the same person that told you that is the same one telling you about global warming.........hehehehehe, I got a bridge to sell ya too, cheap........hehehehehehe


Laguerre

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2002, 08:04:35 PM »
-ammo-, koala, and LAGUERRE,  I've posted some links to webpages where I get some of my information on Global Warming.  Could you please let me know some sources you use?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2002, 08:24:46 PM »
Yeah, it's pretty clear who the dolts are here.

Thanks for the additional links Thrawn.

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2002, 08:30:46 PM »
I'm sure the people living in Siberia wouldn't mind some global warming.

J_A_B

Offline Dowding (Work)

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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2002, 03:10:40 AM »
I have this vision of clothed primates sat at computer screens discussing science and society in general, and global warming specifically. And the one thing they are all saying is:

"Science? Bollocks more like. They're just making it up. What has it ever done for us?"

And the funniest thing is there is not even a hint of irony in what they say. :D
« Last Edit: July 23, 2002, 03:37:46 AM by Dowding (Work) »

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2002, 04:45:06 AM »
My G-d,
the level of ignorance on this board is astounding. Wtf do they do in american schools? Because they sure as he** cant be teaching the kids anyting.

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I have seen some studies that suggest that moderate global warming would actually be beneficial to mankind. A lengthened growing season would increase food supplies for the earth's burgeoning human and animal populations. Rising ocean levels would cause our major port cities the expense of rebuilding their dock areas. Otherwise, who else is it going to hurt, the well-to-do who own expensive beach-front properties?


I must admit, it is not often one gets to witness true stupidity, but here it is. Now, dont take it too personal, Im sure that you think you are right on some level here...just another victim of a poor education I suppose.

So...exactly what would "moderate global warming" be? And how do you get it to stop when it has reached "moderate" levels?

Rising ocean levels "would cause our major port cities the expense of rebuilding their dock areas. Otherwise, who else is it going to hurt, the well-to-do who own expensive beach-front properties? "? Brilliant.

And while the US is forced to rebuild some dock areas, lets see who else might "get hurt" shall we? Lets start with Bangladesh, that country will be pretty much submerged, China's Pearl River Delta will be depopulated (since it will now be below ocean level), kiss Holland goodbye, and say so long to the most populated parts of Egypt..but hey..who cares..right? (aside from the tens of millions of people who are displaced by water) And how much would the oceans have to rise to cause all that havoc? 15-30 inches. How much will the oceans rise if 10% of the polar ice caps melt? 3 feet.  

On to the next idiot.
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It's amusing how many dolts actually believe that man is the main reason for global warming. But hey, we humans need to feel guilty about almost everything we do, so I understand the psychology behind this issue as well.

Do you understand the basic physics behind global warming? In short, certain gasses (lets call them greenhouse gasses), such as CO2 are transparent to sunlight coming through the atmosphere, but they absorb heat radiation from the earths surface and radiate some of that heat back down, causing a heating of the surface.

Also, as the atmosphere becomes warmer (thanks to mr CO2 remember) it can hold more water vapor. Water vapor is another greenhouse gass (transparent to sunlight, absorbing heat radiation from the surface, radiating some of that heat back down). And so we are caught in a bad circle. More heat leads to more water vapor, more water vapor leads to more heat. You dont just turn that off.

Another factor is ice and snow. Ice and snow is a very good reflectant (its white, you know). Much of the sunlight that hits ice or snow is reflected back into space. When the earth's surface becomes warmer, areas of ice and snow are replaced by darker areas of ocean or land, which does not reflect sunlight as good as ice and snow. This means more heat is absorbed instead of reflected, leading to increased temperatures.

NOW

Carbon dioxide levels have increased by 31 percent over the past 250 years, reaching a concentration unseen on the planet in 420,000 years and perhaps as far back as 20 million years. But why blame man for that? (hint: the burning of oil, gasoline and coal, produces carbon dioxide)
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I'm sure the people living in Siberia wouldn't mind some global warming.

Gee..how witty.
Lets see shall we?
More desert, more steppe, more drought,
less tundra, less forests, less rain, less animals
more swamps, more insects, more CO2 emissions...yup..sounds like exactly what anyone would want.

For boreal forests, which are mainly concentrated in the Russian Federation, climate models suggest large shifts in distribution (area reductions of up to 50%) and productivity. All components of boreal forest ecosystems would be affected, including water resources, soil systems, and wildlife, and the combined effect could be even stronger as a result of interacting factors.

Grasslands and shrublands in boreal regions would expand significantly, whereas the tundra zone would decrease by up to 50%, according to model projections. Climatic warming also would increase the release of methane from deep peat deposits, particularly from tundra soils, because they would become wetter. It is expected that the release of CO2 would increase, though not by more than 25% of its present level.

The most widely distributed coniferous forests in Siberia are the larch forests: West of the Yenissei River, Larix russica predominates; to the east, Larix gmelini prevails. The latter grows in the north of eastern Siberia, where the annual temperature range reaches about 100°C (-64°C to +38°C), as shown by mean long-term meteorological data from 1937 to the present from Yakutsk weather station. Larix gmelini has a specialized root system: Its apex central root dies off at the permafrost border, and a root system develops in the upper soil layers. The larch is vulnerable to damage by fires and insects, which occur more frequently in warmer climates. Increased steppe area also may be expected in the southern part of eastern Siberia

The biomass densities of larch (Larix sibirica), scotch pine (Pinus silvestris), Siberian pine (Pinus sibirica), and birch (Betula platyphylla) are projected to decrease by 27.7, 4.3, 28.5, and 2.6 t/ha, respectively. Such decreases seem to be caused by warming air temperature and reduced rainfall during the summer season. Gobi and steppe areas in Mongolia would therefore expand. Major alterations in vegetation could be expected, especially in the mountains of the northern boreal subzone and the subarctic forest-tundra ecotone in northeast Siberia.

Climate changes would affect the biodiversity in boreal forests of Temperate Asia through a myriad of processes and effects: local mortality of boreal species and replacement by northern hardwoods or prairies, depending on locale and soil type; migration of boreal species northward and coastward, also depending on locale and soil type; increased probability of fire; increased or decreased soil nutrient availability, depending on permafrost, soil water-holding capability, and locale; increased emissions of greenhouse gases—particularly methane—from wetlands; and increased probability of outbreaks of pests, particularly insects, to drought-stressed trees.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2002, 07:57:15 AM »
Well, GEE, Hortlund, before you start calling people idiots because they hold opinions opposed to your own, perhaps you had better read the IPCC report found at http://www.ipcc.ch/ which Thrawn listed in his post.

This report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is a technical summary drawn up for the use of policy makers which was taken from the IPCC's Third Assessment Report entitled Climate Change 2001.

The report begins with a short review of the First and Second Assessment Reports which were issued in 1990 and 1996 respectively.

The First Assessment Report contained the following statement:

The past century had...seen a surface warming of nearly 0.5 degrees Celsius, which was broadly consistent with that predicted by climate models for the greenhouse gas increases, but was also comparable to what was then known about natural variation.

The First Assessment Report ended with the conclusion that further study was needed because there was insufficient data to reach any real conclusion.

The Second Assessment Report was entitled Assessing the New State of Understanding.  It contained the following statements;

The report underscored that greenhouse gas abundances continued to increase in the atmosphere and that very substantial cuts in emissions would be required for stabilisation of greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere.  Further, the general increase in global temperature continued, with recent years being the warmest since at least 1860.  The ability of climate models to simulate observed events and trends had improved, particularly with the inclusion of sulphate aerosols and stratospheric ozone as radiative forcing agents in the climate models.  Utilising this simulative capability to compare to the observed patterns of regional temeprature changes, the report concluded that the ability to quantify the human influence on global climate was limited... Nevertheless, the report also concluded that the balance of evidence suggest a discernible human influence on global climate.

Does anybody else find the last two statements in that summary to be contradictory?  If the ability to quantify the human influence is limited how can you reach the conclusion that there is a discernible human influence on global climate?

On to the Third Assessment Report;

Section B begins by asking the question "Is the climate changing?" The answer is unequivocally "Yes." "The global average surface temperature has increased by 0.6 plus or minus 0.2 degrees Celsius since the late 19th century." (Or about one degree Fahrenheit.)

Temperature increases in the ocean are confined mainly to the upper 300 meters and amount to an increase of 0.04 degrees Celsius per decade.

Hmmm!  I can certainly see where some would be alarmed by such drastic changes in global temperature.  But please read further.

Surface, balloon and satellite temperature measurements show that the troposphere and Earth's surface have warmed and that the stratosphere has cooled...Since 1979 the balloon and satellite records show significantly less lower-troposphere warming than observed at the surface.

There has been a major retreat of alpine and continental glaciers in response to 20th century warming.  In a few maritime regions, increases in precipitation due to regional atmospheric circulation changes have overshadowed increases in temperature in the past two decades, and glaciers have readvanced.

This is nothing new.  Alpine and continental glaciers have been retreating world-wide more or less steadily since the last ice age.  By the way, the climate models do not always react in the way that climatologists predict.  They have shown, for instance, that if the current warming trend continues changes in the North Atlantic Current would cause corresponding changes in the climate of Greenland, with the result that its' large continental glacier would grow.  Wierd stuff.

To continue with the Third Assessment Report;

Northern Hemisphere sea-ice amounts are decreasing, but no significant trends in Antarctic sea-ice extent are apparent.

Over the 20th Century there were relatively small increases in global land areas experiencing severe drought or severe wetness.

There has been a 2 to 4 percent increase in the frequency of heavy precipitation events.    There is no comparable evidence to indicate that the characteristics of tropical and extra-tropical storms have changed.


There is much more contained in the report.  Graphs that illustrate the dramatic rise of global temperatures from a low of approximately 0.4 degrees Celsius below normal to the current high of approximately 0.4 degrees above normal.  Study reports that show that the rise in level of the world's oceans has increased alarmingly...to about 0.04 mm per year.

How long will it take to flood Bangladesh at that rate Hortlund?

Now, please understand.  I do not discount the dangers involved in global warming.  The dangers are certainly real.  The statements in the report about the growing effects of man-made pollutants on global warming are compelling.  Some are cleansed out of the atmosphere in as little as 4 years while others linger for as long as 50,000 years.  Definitely scarey stuff.

What I do question is some of the conclusions reached in light of some of the contradictory evidence presented in these same reports.  Some of the warnings sound shrill.  

Man-made pollutants are undoubtedly playing a part in global warming.  These reports suggest that climatologists do not, yet, know exactly how significant that part is.

Until they do, I wish everyone concerned would stop acting as if they have all the answers.  Nature and climate are still highly unpredictable.


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2002, 08:04:06 AM »

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2002, 08:10:29 AM »
In the fall of 2000 Arkansas experienced the hottest August on record, with daytime temperatures frequently rising as high as 111 degrees fahrenheit.  

Four months later, Arkansas experienced the coldest December on record, with daytime temperatures seldom rising above freezing and frequent snow and ice storms.



Whazzup widdat?


Regards, Shuckins

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2002, 08:52:03 AM »
In the late 60's early 70's Time magazine reported on the coming ica age that was do to start kicking in with huge temperature changes (for the colder) by the year 2000.

I feel proud to have spray painted and hot rodded the world a little farther away from the ice age. (and to have stopped reading Time)

That quack astronomer (ded PBS guy) sagan  or whatever, predicted an worldwide nucleur winter IF sadam fired up the oil fields in kuait as he threatened...   He did and the world didn't.
lazs

Offline hblair

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« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2002, 08:56:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
NOW

Carbon dioxide levels have increased by 31 percent over the past 250 years, reaching a concentration unseen on the planet in 420,000 years and perhaps as far back as 20 million years.



What kind of instrument did we use to measure carbon dioxide 250 years ago? Was it as accurate as what we use today?

Also, how do we know (know as in know, not guess) what levels of carbon dioxide were on earth 420,000 years ago? Do we get that info out of some rocks combined with a really smart professors theory? (serious question)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2002, 09:01:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hblair



What kind of instrument did we use to measure carbon dioxide 250 years ago? Was it as accurate as what we use today?

Also, how do we know (know as in know, not guess) what levels of carbon dioxide were on earth 420,000 years ago? Do we get that info out of some rocks combined with a really smart professors theory? (serious question)


for the first question : ice and yes it's accurate :)
the the 2nd ... I don't now :(

Offline hblair

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« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2002, 09:15:14 AM »
How do we know the age of the ice?