Author Topic: AlGore was Right!  (Read 1366 times)

Offline midnight Target

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AlGore was Right!
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2002, 10:19:12 AM »
Receding glaciers also leave "rings" similar to the rings on a tree. These indicate periods of higher or lower activity and can help in dating the ice.

Radio Isotopes work too

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2002, 10:20:24 AM »
Oops... actually I slipped some I.Q. points... "Republiclown" is more of a sobriquet than a euphemism...

...dang, mistakes like that really do bug me... :D

Offline narsus

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« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2002, 12:49:47 PM »
Everyone interesting reading

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/paleo/pliocene/

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/about/spotlight/

Being a geologist global climates have changed several times in earths history. Do I believe we (man) have a role in the weather...yes i do. Hell just look at LA and NY from a distance tons of smog, blacktop (key to warming in large sities BTW), acid rain etc. Regulations need to be put into place to stop pollution no doubt.

Do i think global warming is as much as they say...no i dont. Not many of the temps are taken in remote regions say easter island, where there is warming but not the 0.5 C they are saying. Prolly closer to 0.2C maybe 0.3C IMO.

Just my opinion.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2002, 12:54:46 PM »
Midnight Target,

Aww!  Dang!  Did I make a Boo-Boo?  LOL!

I see that I'm gonna have to take off the gloves! :D

Actually, if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that I had already agreed that humanity was having an impact on global climate.

I attempted to make two main points in my second thread.  One, climatologists had made great strides in gathering data on the global climate and creating climate models.  Second, despite these strides climatology remains an inexact science.  They simply do not have the capability of accurately quantifying how great the human impact is.  The best that they can do is make educated projections.  There are too many other variables involved in the equation for them to claim such a high level of expertise.


On another note:  I found that I made another mistake (I'm nothing if not honest.)  Sea level rise during the 20th century has actually been running between1.0 and 2.0 millimeters a year.  Hortlund stated that it would only take 15 to 30 inches of ocean rise to flood Bangladesh.  For purposes of calculation lets use a median figure of 50 centimeters.  If I've done my math right it will take about 250 years for Bangladesh to be flooded.

Plenty of time to make some adjustments.  It may happen no matter what steps we take to prevent global warming.


Regards, Shuckins

Offline MrBill

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« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2002, 12:55:37 PM »
Good Grief I did not know that this was so serious!  I sure hope that I am not around in 6000 years or so to see if I die by global warming or by nuclear winter.  But for the time being I think I will run around like a head with the chicken cut off spouting hysteria (a lot more fun when you can back it up with a limited amount of scientific theory), I just haven't decided which side to be on.  Maybe I will just take chicken little approach.  Most likely I will just pull up a lawn chair and cheer the debate.  
What both sides "DO NOT" know would fill encyclopedias.

another opinion

gee, opinions are a lot more fun than facts. ;)
We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2002, 02:45:41 PM »
well.... my point is that scientists get a lot more funding and attention if they can come up with a plausible doomsday scenario.  Carl frigging sagan was just too stupid to see that he needs to have a theory that won't be tested.   At least not till the book royalties and awards come in.   Red Adair did not think that the kuwait fires were particularly difficult to put out.... especialy after he closed the main valve.

say... can anyone tell me... Milk, good to drink or bad to drink?
lazs

Offline Rude

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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2002, 04:15:13 PM »
Uhhhh....is it still ok to go outside?

and Lazs....

Currently, milk is ok as long as you drink the white water(1 or 2% only). My four kids drink what I grew up on...full strength vitamin D:)

Oh yeah....egg's are cool now and so is bacon...enjoy yourself until some Swedish UN SWAT Team comes through your front door and confiscates your refrigerator.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2002, 04:28:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Oh yeah....egg's are cool now and so is bacon...enjoy yourself until some Swedish UN SWAT Team comes through your front door and confiscates your refrigerator.


Curses...how did they get hold of our secret plans. And I thought I told the SWAT team to stay hidden and not use the black choppers.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2002, 04:38:27 PM »
Thank You Shuckins,

You are right of course. Global Climatology is in its infancy compared to other sciences. The point I was trying to make was that the EPA has actually agreed that there IS a human component to global warming. We can argue all day as to the extent, but I think we all agree that it exists.
Back in the 60's I remember lots of nay sayers who were up in arms about cutting air pollution in cars. We were going to ruin the economy! We were going to ruin the cars! It ain't so bad!

Global warming would be a bad thing, especially if it were to become self accelerating. Since we agree humans have some affect, can't we also agree that we should do what we can to minimize it?

Offline john9001

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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2002, 05:04:29 PM »
we have the means to stop global warming now, we set off a number of nuclear bombs in uninhabited areas and the debris will go into the upper atmospher and block the suns rays ,there by cooling off the planet, but we must be carefull not to over do it and cause nuclear winter.
 i am sure the scientists who can measure a change in the oceans level to accuracy of 1 MM can figure out the mega tonnage

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2002, 05:33:34 PM »
Mr. Bill,

You made my point exactly.  Considering that there is much that we do not know it is a bit presumptuous for either side in this debate to be making broad, sweeping statements.

Personally, I get more upset about the disappearance of the Southern Hardwood Forest in my home state of Arkansas.  The state legislature has been in the hip pocket of the timber industry for more than 100 years.  As a result there is almost no regulation of their timber cutting practices.  After decades of cutting mature hardwood, spraying poison on the saplings, and then replacing the cut timber with pine, the southern half of the state has become a virtual pine plantation.

Mature stands of hardwood exist now almost exclusively on private lands.  The timber companies are now paying local land-owners for the right to harvest these remnants.

People have to have timber for their homes and I do not wish to deprive timber employees of their jobs.  They are, after all, only supplying a need.  But pine is a second-rate building material at best, which means that the homes built with it will not last as long as those built with hardwood.  The replacement of hardwood with pine creates a future market for the industry, which appears to have little concern for the environment.

It is a tragedy of the first magnitude.  If you have never stood in one of those forests on a frosty morning late in October, with the sun on the edge of the horizon casting its pale light on the brilliant yellows and golds and reds of hickory and oak and beech, then you have not lived a full life.  

Prosperity should not come at such a price.


Regards, Shuckins

Offline john9001

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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2002, 05:45:06 PM »
houses should be built out of steel and concrete not firewood

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2002, 05:53:56 PM »
The rain forest has been getting chopped down/burned/destroyed for a decade or more now...



is it any wonder CO2 levels are increasing?

But yeah, ignore that and lets push for electrical cars so that we can pollute more with power plants..... and continue to cut down the rain forest so that no matter how much we cut down on emissions, it don't matter one damn bit...
-SW

Offline koala

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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2002, 06:13:45 PM »
Quote
They simply do not have the capability of accurately quantifying how great the human impact is. The best that they can do is make educated projections. There are too many other variables involved in the equation for them to claim such a high level of expertise.

Even if it turns out it's 1% due to man, 99% due to nature, the dolts in their collective guilt will still run around demanding that we all totally change our lives because we're GUILTY, GUILTY, and if we don't go back to the stone age then we don't DESERVE to live on this planet!

Quote
well.... my point is that scientists get a lot more funding and attention if they can come up with a plausible doomsday scenario. Carl frigging sagan was just too stupid to see that he needs to have a theory that won't be tested. At least not till the book royalties and awards come in.

Bingo.  No different than the JFK conspiracy buffs.  Conspiracies and doomsday scenarios always equal money and control for the dolts.

Quote
Since we agree humans have some affect, can't we also agree that we should do what we can to minimize it?

Not if the effect is negligible, or if the gain is far outweighed by the pain.  Nobody knows what that is, yet the dolts are ready to make us all suffer for it.

Thankfully we weren't stupid enough to sign on to the Kyoto treaty.  But I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the hysteria pushes us in that direction again.

Offline Udie

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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2002, 06:57:40 PM »
The end of my pipe just experienced "global warming" :D