Author Topic: War on Drugs (Read 3319 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2002, 08:38:15 PM »

Amidst Batdog's jibberish, there is actually a bunch of good ideas.

-SW

Sandman · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2002, 08:53:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by batdog
I hate the hard stuff due to what it does... Pot, well Pot is like beer. Hell I bet less people get killed as a result of smoking pot or being around those that do than beer. I mean can you picture abunch of guys doing bong hits saying... hey man..lets go beat someones ass... but first lets stop at Micky D's cause I got the munchies!

Actually... the death tolls for alcohol and cigarettes are higher than all of the illegal drugs combined.

Hangtime · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2002, 09:03:14 PM »

CLUE!!! ... the bozo's in washington and their understudies in your states legislatures are already the worlds leading drug overlords.. anybody ever stop and look at the tax levy on a pack of butts?

A fediddlein war on drugs in my book oughta start with a seige on the big pharmacutical companys.. they commonly charge about 7,000 percent over cost for perscription AND over the counter drugs that are quality of life neccessities for millions of uninsured americans.

tell yah what, nationalise the health care industry, including the drug manufacturers, make tobacco illegal, legalize marijuana; install price caps on perscription medication and actually agressively TREAT alcholisim as the #1 abused substance that it is, and THEN you'll see a positive societal and social reform that improve the quality of ALL our lives.

..and untill such time our esteemed governemnt appoints me a personal political welfare officer and stations the heavily armed pinhead in my freakin living room to monitor my substance consumption... all you pissy lil anal retentive ultra conservative toejams that wanna dictate the terms and type of my private recreation are cordially invited to just SHUT THE FEK UP!!

thank you all, please carry on.

Furious · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2002, 09:14:55 PM »

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We can go round and round in circles about that with no result for the remainder of the decade.

That is precisely what we have done since the inception of "The War on Drugs".

I contend that is precisely what will continue to happen until this so-called war is ended.

Only folks profiting from this war are the drug enforcement agencies and the illegal drug sellers. Neither wants to see this "war" end.

F.

Morgoth · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2002, 09:21:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
Why is it OK for people to drink themselves to death with the US' blessings but it is unacceptable to smoke pot?

who said it was?

"because it's against the law" isn't a valid response

yep, that's about it in a nutshell. just wonder how those of you with kids explain that smoking dope is "ok" but not stealing or any other law breaking activity, how about speeding?

I'm tired of these half way attempts. if the battle against drugs is a "war" we should fight it as such. if we turned our military against the drug traffic, taking it into their countries, we would not have the issue as the oz of dope you can now afford would be so expense, many would have to quit.

try it sober for 6 months, if you can<-bet you can't, you may even like it

The government says it's OK about the drinking. That's why it's sold in stores. Same for cigarettes. One of these without the wisdom of moderation will kill you. The other just plain kills you. It's cool with the US as long as they get their fatass share of taxes on them tho.

My daughter's 2 so I don't have to worry about explaining the diffference between just and unjust laws (yet). And I'll flat out state to you that I'll be telling her drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and doing drugs is unacceptable while she is living in my home. Parenting is my job, not the governments. Our elected officials can't keep their respective sexual organs in their pants or keep money that belongs to their constituents out of their pants so you'll pardon me if I question their competence at lucid and just legislation. (maybe we should have a war on pants and solve both problems)

Your comment on taking the battle to other countries regarding pot is ludicrous. Importing pot ceased to be financially viable for growers in the late 70s tho there's still ragweed coming in from Mexico. I'd wager 90% if not more is grown with stealthy pride in the US. You want to use the military to keep smack and coke from rolling in, go for it. No need to go abroad; tighten our borders. It's not like we don't know where the stuff's coming from.

Lastly, why don't you smoke weed for six months <-- bet you can. You might lighten up a bit

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2002, 11:03:43 PM »

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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM

There are plenty of people involved with law enforcement in this country that would also disagree with sc-spook.

I dont doubt that Sandman. Fortunately for them, occupation alone does not mean compliant thinking. Everyone has a view on it. I simply state mine.

Quote

Originally posted by BatdogLegalise it... make some money off it. Provide it cheap and in a manner that is controled. THEN make the laws for going the black market way simply horrendous.... THEN also allow health care to say,,, if you do the stuff... we aint gonna cover you. That'll make for more BBS material no doubt (Hey isnt that a band?)

Firstly, Marijuana is a Drug that noone believes can be controlled. Why would I buy it, if I can buy Head (the dope kind) legally, knock off the seed and grow my own? Would I buy leaf only because thats legal? Average Jo Smo doesnt want to smoke leaf. He was Ganja, skunk and all the other hippy ki yah varieties. He's going to grow his own.

Only reason to legalise it is to make money off it. Only the stupid will or the curious in the beginning. Its a plant that grows damn near anywhere and its more readily available than liqour or cigarettes. A price war develops between the Government and the BlackMarket. Funding comes from the ever increasingly burdened tax payer to monitor and administrate and after a time, the freebie grow your own market wins. Black Marketeers wait out the storm and move back in and all you have is a new tax for a product noone no longer buys.

In the space of a week, already the legalised system is breaking down with gaps created by every pimply teenage that can stick a short length of hose into a plastic orange bottle. Why pay for it at all when your own lights up so much better. Slap harsher laws on them for cultivating their own in the face of a Government produced product? The Audacity of their hippy hides!
Back to square one.

Laws for the Black Market. Those laws are already in the system and some would say they indeed are horrendous, yet Ill bet everyone on this forum has a CD writer in their PC and have used it at least once. God forbid we have ruined the music industry with our blatant thefts of ripped Muzac.

Hippies, Dope heads, whatever you want to call them. Dont care about Health Care. Nor their old age pension, their Superannunation or much else. Cepting if their a Magistrate or a Lawyer and such. The average kid listening to music in a beanbag with a mull bowl at his side couldnt care less.

Furious (shortcut to quoting manually)

I agree. The alternative however is to give up. Unacceptable imho. Wars arent won that way.

SW God save me, there isnt enough room

I'll answer your reply later.

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #36 on:** July 31, 2002, 11:15:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morgoth

Why is it OK for people to drink themselves to death with the US' blessings but it is unacceptable to smoke pot?
Caveat: answering "because it's against the law" isn't a valid response.

You do indeed have legalised drinking laws do you not?

Works doesnt it

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #37 on:** July 31, 2002, 11:56:20 PM »

Sp00k, I realise you will answer my reply later.. however, I wanted to reply to this...

"Only reason to legalise it is to make money off it. Only the stupid will or the curious in the beginning. Its a plant that grows damn near anywhere and its more readily available than liqour or cigarettes. A price war develops between the Government and the BlackMarket. Funding comes from the ever increasingly burdened tax payer to monitor and administrate and after a time, the freebie grow your own market wins. Black Marketeers wait out the storm and move back in and all you have is a new tax for a product noone no longer buys."

(reminding you there ARE laws against manufacturing your own alcohol)

The current prices for marijuana are EXTREMELY high as opposed to what could be sold to you legally. It's such an easy product to grow, it's like tobacco in terms of growing. For higher quality stuff, it's gonna naturally cost you more. But it will still be MUCH cheaper in quantity than what is sold illegally. Not to mention, marijuana practically pays for itself (hemp- MANY, MANY uses) while you can only get a few things out of wheat germ and tobacco.

Basically, the black market could never compete with legalised marijuana.
-SW

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #38 on:** August 01, 2002, 12:50:44 AM »

If we were talking about Hemp as in Hemp rope, Hemp pie, hemp stew (<--insert Bubba from Forrest Gump here) then i'd agree.

Dope here is priced at $20-$25 a stick Aus and so on and so on up the scale of weight. Agreed, that is is expensive and ridiculous. But then we arent talking about Black Marketeers in the current market as there aren't any. Currently we have Dealers and Users. Dealers making the profit.

Imagine a Government giving away practically free dope. Imagine the market for such a thing. Bad-a-bing, the light bulbs grow hotly over the head of some Enterprising businessman or Politician one day and the tax on green vegtable matter is increased. Up and Up over the years in the same way, Alcohol and Cigarettes do now.

Will the Governments, yours and mine, care more about you in 10 years or the Dope Market bringing them X amount of dollars for schools, hospitals and mini wars. I dont think so. In the short term should such a venture prove successful (I bet it wont), the Government will save themselves Millions of dollars. Savings one would hope passed down to you and I. But sooner or later, Grass Enterprises PTY LTD has to turn a profit. Thats when it all folds back on itself and the Dealers (Now BlackMarketeers) move in.

Many Dope heads are anti-establishment. (Note I didnt say all. Yuppies need not necessarily apply) It doesnt take much to bring them back the way of the revolutionist. A fancy T-Shirt, an underground paper, a youth culture.

Brand X is no longer viable or popular for the majority. Brand Z is the new thing and the kid at school wont tax you!.

As for laws against manufacturing your own alcohol.

True. Good laws. The same principle applies for Dope.

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #39 on:** August 01, 2002, 12:51:54 AM »

Tumor · « **Reply #40 on:** August 01, 2002, 01:10:14 AM »

All drugs should be made legal and available over the counter. Imagine how quickly the gene pool would be improved.

-dead- · « **Reply #41 on:** August 01, 2002, 01:23:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by senna
The west is full of drug use and drug related subjects. Its pathetic. If you go to Japan or Korea, you'll see how clean and beautiful its cities are. They can win the drug war if they really wanted to, they have the resources and the mite and power to, I dont think the polititions really want to or care to. They have their own agendas. My .02 cents.

Clean & beautiful cities = drug free, eh? So presumably the DEA should spend less on guns and sting operations and more on cleaning products and urban renewal.
Lets test this entertaining hypothesis on google:

The Korea Times (2000/12/28) says:
"Drug abuse among Koreans is on a worrisome rise. The number of those arrested for trafficking or using illegal drugs is increasing at an alarming pace every year. ... The number of narcotics-related arrests in Korea as of the end of October was 8,737 and is expected to reach around 11,500 by the end of the year, according to authorities. The number of drug offenders which stood at 700 in 1980, jumped to 4,200 in 1990 and exceeded the 10,000 mark last year. "
http://www.hankooki.com/kt_plaza/200012/t200012281600364A11356.htm

The Drug Abuse Prevention Center in Japan says:
"When we look at the drug abuse situation in 1994, the number of amphetamine cases continued at a high level with 19,000 amphetamine arrests involving 15,000 people, and the 270kg of drugs confiscated was there times higher than the year before. There were 121 people arrested in connection with cocaine cases, and 20kg were seized. With the south American drug cartels targeting Japan as an illicit drug market, the situation is said to be extremely critical. Recently, marijuana trends are also increasing. Arrestees increased by 1,700 people ( 8% ), and 180kg were confiscated. Psychotropic drug-related crimes have also widely increased in comparison to the 105 arrests involving 73 people in 1993. As for paint thinner, of the 9,800 people who were arrested, 73% were young people. Drug abuse has widely penetrated the adolescent population."
http://www.dapc.or.jp/english/info1.htm

Oh well maybe clean cities have drugs in them after all.
Let me posit my own hypothesis for testing: never send Senna out to score in Asia, he'll come back empty-handed.

senna · « **Reply #42 on:** August 01, 2002, 01:41:51 AM »

Well I wont argue with you on that ammo. The evidence that their social culture more closely mimicks western social cultures is quite obvious. Check out their puplar music and the hair dues on their World Cup Soccer players. Though its not really fair to judge two different things independantly and out of chronological context of each other its interesting to see the difference in the two cultures. Drugs has been a part of modern western culture for a longer period of time than in the younger modern Eastern cultures of today. Give them time and perhaps it will become a large fundamental flaw to their own society, its integrity, growth, and problems. Then again maybe not, who knows. It will be interesting to see what happens in the years to come. I was just trying to point out that there is less drugs over there and hey look and see how safe their streets are and how their crime rate is much lower. An interesting glimpse at two modern cultures at different stages of growth. I guess you cant have one without the other so the idea comes to mind...

senna · « **Reply #43 on:** August 01, 2002, 01:46:21 AM »

>Let me posit my own hypothesis for testing: never send Senna
>out to score in Asia, he'll come back empty-handed.

LOL, I wouldnt even know what to say. We are talkin about girls right?

-dead- · « **Reply #44 on:** August 01, 2002, 03:21:00 AM »

Well I'm not sure about the assumption "Drugs has been a part of modern western culture for a longer period of time than in the younger modern Eastern cultures of today."
Take a gander at the history of my own fair city - founded entirely on drugs money, taken as a concession from China after a war paid for by drug pushers which was fought over the pushers' right to sell opium in China (who had made opium illegal).
I don't know enough about Korea's history to say anything either way, but Japan certainly had a hand in the drugs trade after they took over Taiwan in 1895, and this increased after the First World War, with the acquisition of German Colonies. In the 30s and 40s the Japanese grew opium in the north of Korea and sold it in China as part of government policy.
Opium also financed Malaysia, Singapore, India - basically the whole region from the 1830s to the 1930s. Opium and Heroin(TM)again funded a lot of the wars in Indochina after 1945 on all sides.
How's that for being a part of the culture?

The fact is drugs grow everywhere and humans like them. They always have, they probably always will. The history of "drug abuse" stretches back much further than most people assume, indeed it stretches back to before history.
No war on drugs will ever win. A war on drugs is a war on human nature, and people will always lose a fight against their own nature. You might as well have a war on greed, jealousy or stupidity. Just as futile, although probably money better spent, IMHO.

... And no, we weren't talking about girls. [I rest my case, your honour]