Who was the Best President? Clinton?

[-Concho-]

I'm going to side with Target on this one, hope nobody holds that against me.  

[Eagler]

what Kieran said

I think the poll is too close for an objective view of Clinton, he should be in a poll in about 20 years when the smoke & mirrors of the dems has been lowered.

Kennedy? don't see that either...

[SaburoS]

Post 1898, I'll go with Theodore Roosevelt as well. Unique mix of a true conservative and liberal. Feared by his own party.

[senna]

>Carter: botched the Iran hostage crisis

Well from a big picture point of view I guess thats what most people are led to believe. Underneath it all, Carter was actually trying to be effective towards the crisis. It was he who decided to go forward and save the American hostages held in Iran using Military actions. A bold move during a time when America was still not confident of its military, the 70s. His concerns were natural and wanted to ensure the liabilities of casualties and ramifications of disaster against his presidancy. With this in mind, he went ahead and decided it was more important to save the lifes of those Americans held in hostage in Iran. Meetings were made with Generals and other high ranking military officials and the events were executed. Alot of lives were at stake that had accumlated in decades of events and decisions to all put them there at that moment in time. In the aftermath a ton of Delta Force people were dead, alot of the prime and core people who founded and built  this elit military unit lay dead. Not to the fault of Carter, simply an accident on route to the target. I think his decision was right, its just tragic that the winds had to intervene in such a way. It's amazing, the facts and things you can learn if you have six bucks and your bored.

[weazel]

Too bad chimpy blocked the release of the Gibberers presidential memoirs, he gets #1 instead of being recognized as scum.

"Reagan: a great president by any measure, he is considered great by many Democrats just as many Republicans consider JFK great. Reagan did more than any other president to bring down the USSR, and also managed to reverse to a large degree a liberal trend that the US had been going through off and on for a long time. He managed to reaffirm good conservative values, and make people feel good about the country. Good- strong military, tax cuts, conservative Supreme Court judges, strong foreign policy
Bad- the whole Iran-Contra affair, which may not have been his fault but it happened on his watch and was certainly mishandled any way you look at it."

Yeah, he was great.....at hanging the people in our military out to dry.  Don't forget the Marines in Beirut.

In regards to the Soviet Unions collapse he simply collected the pot, the presidents who went before him made it possible.

"Good conservative values", I'll give him credit for the "conservative" fairy tale thats become so popular.

Your view of Iran/Contra demonstrates the hypocrisy of the right wing.

It amazes me to see how many people are willing to buy into the "conservative" drivel, PT Barnum would have loved to live in these times.

"Theres a sucker born every minute".

[senna]

Hum, takes weazel out, squeak slaps him twice on the left cheak, gives him a shot of Wild Turkey to sooth his pain. Appologizes to him then puts him back in his cage in front of TV.

Reminds him that the world is better today except for pretty birdies in cages.

[Durr]

Well I rarely agree with Midnight, especially as far as politics go, even though I respect his viewpoint, and think that he is an excellent spokesman for his beliefs, which I admire.  I have even gained a greater understanding for the way a liberal thinks from reading his posts.  Nonetheless, we still disagree on most issues, so it is with surprise that I see that we share a favorite president.  T.R. is certainly in my top 5 presidents list anyday.

[weazel]

The so called "conservatives" get their panties in a wad when confronted with the truth?

"squeak Slap"?  

You probably should stick to beating your wife, I doubt you would try it if we met.

Reminds Senna that the world is better today except for people who still believe in fairy tales.

Originally posted by senna
Hum, takes weazel out, squeak slaps him twice on the left cheak, gives him a shot of Wild Turkey to sooth his pain. Appologizes to him then puts him back in his cage in front of TV.

Reminds him that the world is better today except for pretty birdies in cages.

[wsnpr]

Theodore Roosevelt my favorite, Ronald Reagan the worst.
You can add this to negative Reagan points:
1) He drove up the National debt like no other.
2) Sold the less intelligent, the merits of 'Reaganomics.' That trickle-down theory even Reagan didn't truly understand. Bush called it voodoo economics.
3) His administration was the most corrupt. Makes Clinton's administration look angelic.
4) Reagan wanted to classify ketchup as a vegetable for the public school lunch program so there could be one less vegetable served to the less fortunate kids.
5) Ed Meese proclaimed that "There were no homeless people in America."
6) Upon learning of an Israeli Airstrike against Syrian(I think I remember it being them) SAM positions, Reagan stated that the Israeli's were justified because the Israeli's were firing on offensive targets in self defence. When a reporter asked how SAM's can be considered 'offensive', Reagan quipted that "Those SAMs were pointed towards Israel."  LOL! What a moron!
This is just the tip of the iceberg. All from memory. Being 40, I lived through those times.

If Clinton were a Rebublican, the 'conservatives' here would be rating Clinton much higher and the 'liberals' would rate him lower.

[senna]

Weazal, I'm not that big of a guy actually (5 foot 7) so I would probably have to Tai Bow you to death.

Hehe just kidding of course. I can appreciate a good leftist radical from time to time.

[wsnpr]

Originally posted by weazel
The so called "conservatives" get their panties in a wad when confronted with the truth?
 

LOL, some can't handle the truth  

After presented with facts/statements that disagree with theirs, some tend to start hurling insults or go off on tangents.

Just what I've been noticing.


(Edited to add)
Or some'll 'squelch' others (or make the statement of doing that).

(edited for accuracy - my perspective)

[wsnpr]

oops  

[Durr]

Addressing the points from the last post about Reagan:

1) The national debt went up because we needed to stand up to the USSR and have a strong military.  The tax cut was essential for helping the economy and was a great idea, but Congress refused to cut back on social programs at the time, allowing the debt to balloon.  It wasnt that big of a deal though.  National defense was necessary, tax cuts were necessary, and the Congress (both liberals and conservatives) seemed to feel that the pork in the budget was necessary.

2) Not everybody agrees that trickle-down economics was a failure.  You can debate this all day long but there are plenty of economists on both sides of this one.  I personally believe it works as advertised to a large degree.

3) While writing the rebuttal to this one, I was surprised to learn during research that this charge is actually true.  Nonetheless, most of the Reagan officials that were charged or resigned were charged with much less serious charges in my opinion, or maybe its just my conservative bias showing. Anyway this charge is apparantly true if you classify most corrupt as "most officials associated with that were either indited or resigned under ethical cloud".  

4) Cant respond to this one, never heard this story before.  It sounds dubious to me though.  

5) Wont respond to this one either without further research.  

6) How can SAMs be offensive? How about this, those SAM sites were within range and threatining Israeli airspace.  They threatened Israeli military aircraft that were flying in their own territory and also civilian Israeli aircraft.  I'm not trying to be an Israel apologist here, (although I think they did what they needed to do in the Bekaa valley campaign referred to here) but
simply pointing out that this statement isnt nonsense.  Trust me, we definitely consider Stinger SAMs in the hands of the Taliban to be potentially offensive weapons!

[Durr]

wsnpr I am conservative, and you can search my posts if you like.  I have never resorted to insults or name-calling in arguing my viewpoint.  I have seen just as many liberals as conservatives resort to this type of behaviour on these boards.  Neither side has a lock on all the idiots.  It just seems to you that more conservatives do so, probably because those are the posts that you notice most.  I know that if I see a conservative calling names or hurling insults, I may cringe or laugh depending on what he says, but if a liberal does same, it is more likely to inflame me.  I try to see both sides of the issues, and I value debate, but I remain unabashedly and firmly in the right hand side of the aisle, and like so many issues this is simply an issue of perspective.

Its like the Bishops insisting that the Knights only fly Nikis and LA-7s.  This is hardly true, but it can seem that way when thats all you see I'm sure.  It certainly seems to me that all I see on the Bishop team is La-7s and Spitfires.  You dont see it when your own side flies these planes, because you only see the names of your friends, not their plane type.  It all depends on what side you are on as to how you view an issue.  Realize this and move on.

[batdog]

Originally posted by Shuckins
I guess people tend to vote in these polls for the Presidents of their own times.  How else can one explain Bill Clinton being ranked ahead of Franklin Roosevelt?  The challenges Clinton faced during his administration were miniscule compared to those faced by Roosevelt (Unless one counts the challenges he faced defending his administration from criticism surrounding the many scandals.)

Regards, Shuckins

Hell yea... THINK about it. FDR came up w/ideas that where orginal..or at least untried to bring this nation back from economic disaster. And when WW2 came about.... he was THE man. He wielded and forged an alliance through sheer force of personality that few other leaders in the history of the WORLD could of accomplished. Hell..he was even a GAG "socialist" but man..my vote is for him.

I like Daddy Ronnie to. He gave me lots of toys to play with.

xBAT

"I lost my damn frog...he ran off with that GD donkey!"