Author Topic: kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?  (Read 1824 times)

Offline mauser

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2002, 10:39:19 PM »
Just saw an interview on tv of one of the girls.  Wow the two girls were very brave for trying to get loose.  They even tried to stab him in the throat.  Unfortunately the blade didn't go deep enough or hit the right place (she mentioned stabbing him at the place where you take a pulse.. she pointed at the side of the adams apple).  They were very brave to try... killing a person is not an easy thing.  Being scared out of their minds, and a natural human instinct to NOT hurt others makes it very difficult.  I don't know about you guys, but I don't know if I could stab someone deep enough to kill them.  Shooting them might be a little easier, but a stab involves personally shoving the blade in.  Something that, for those of us who have never hurt another person before, would be very difficult to do without hesitation, shaking, etc.  And I think there's only one place on the body, that once punctured, would mean instant death.  And it's probably very hard to get to with a knife.  

mauser

Offline easymo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2002, 11:34:11 PM »
"On the other hand... the sexual assault charge that Ratliff was wanted for would have been his third strike. The guy was looking at a life sentence if convicted.

Scariest thing on the planet is a man with nothing left to lose..."



  I have read accounts of lefties going to some idiotic lengths to excuse criminal behavior.  But this is a classic.

He would be severly punished, so he had nothing to lose.

Of course, If you bring up the death penalty they hold there breath until they turn blue. And of course, the scociopath would have nothing left to lose.

Tell me sand.  When would this guy have something to lose?

I have nothing left to lose. So I will tell you what I think.  Guys like you make it possible for guys like ratliff to exist. Sleep well.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2002, 02:41:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
 I have read accounts of lefties going to some idiotic lengths to excuse criminal behavior.  But this is a classic.

He would be severly punished, so he had nothing to lose.

Of course, If you bring up the death penalty they hold there breath until they turn blue. And of course, the scociopath would have nothing left to lose.

Tell me sand.  When would this guy have something to lose?

I have nothing left to lose. So I will tell you what I think.  Guys like you make it possible for guys like ratliff to exist. Sleep well.


You read that as an excuse for criminal behavior? Then you missed the point completely.  

The point is to excuse the failure of the law enforcement agencies to apprehend this man.

The point is that there isn't much you can do to protect yourself from this type of man beyond killing him.

The point is that four teenagers could do practically nothing to defend themselves against this man.

Get the point?

Ratliff was a diddlying monster to do the things he did. But why the hell should we think that we could have defended against it (other than possibly ending the drug war and letting our police do real police work or setting up permanent security check points at each of the major interstate junctions).

The man was a wanted criminal for a sex offense, but not a convicted one. His picture might even be displayed at the local post office so I'm rather certain that he didn't announce his presence at the local station house.

It's obviously the fault of some liberal judge somewhere that Ratliff was a paroled felon with convictions for theft, burglary and drug use. It's obviously the fault of some liberal judge that the man wasn't already in prison for a crime he had not yet committed.

I'm assuming that Ratliff did indeed commit the crime he was wanted for. If so, the man had to know that if caught, he would spend the rest of his life in prison. He probably thought, "I better make this worth it." His fate was predetermined and he knew it. Life in prison or death. Complete freedom to act without worrying about the details of what would happen if he were caught. You tell me what could be more frightening about a criminal than that?

Clear enough?

Guys like me... your self-righteousness is clouding your vision, Easymo.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 05:46:48 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline N1kPaz

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2002, 09:21:20 AM »
those kids should have been packing heat. if they were all carrying loaded fire arms i dont see how the assailant could have pulled this off.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2002, 12:23:26 PM »
Sandman,

Try doing the job for a while before condeming all Law Enforcement for not catching this guy prior to this last offense. It IS a mobile society and those nasty people do move around. Makes it hard to find them since they won't stay in one spot. :rolleyes:  Perhaps all the other calls and requirements for responses could hinder the search for one person out of all the hundreds, if not thousands, of wanted suspects. Then again, if he hadn't been out on parole it might not have happened either. :rolleyes:
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2002, 12:59:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Sandman,

Try doing the job for a while before condeming all Law Enforcement for not catching this guy prior to this last offense. It IS a mobile society and those nasty people do move around. Makes it hard to find them since they won't stay in one spot. :rolleyes:  Perhaps all the other calls and requirements for responses could hinder the search for one person out of all the hundreds, if not thousands, of wanted suspects. Then again, if he hadn't been out on parole it might not have happened either. :rolleyes:


That wasn't condemnation of law enforcement. It's not their fault that there aren't enough of them. It's not their fault that they spend a disproportionate amount of their time chasing down non-violent drug offenders. It's not their fault that real criminals are paroled to make room for more drug offenders. It's not their fault.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2002, 01:04:03 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline Kieran

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4119
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2002, 01:21:05 PM »
Sandman-

You sure are going to great lengths to underscore drug offenders are not criminals, even to the point of making the stance this whole thing wouldn't have happened if people were only allowed to take drugs as they wished. Tell me, who's reaching more- the conservatives who say judges shouldn't let criminals go so easily, or liberals who blame the war on drugs for such events?

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2002, 01:27:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Sandman-

You sure are going to great lengths to underscore drug offenders are not criminals, even to the point of making the stance this whole thing wouldn't have happened if people were only allowed to take drugs as they wished. Tell me, who's reaching more- the conservatives who say judges shouldn't let criminals go so easily, or liberals who blame the war on drugs for such events?


The conservatives. Our prisons are overfilled and the business of incarceration is booming so big that private corporations are getting in on the money. But the supply of bed space can't keep up with the demand so terms are shortened and felons get parole.

There is only one reason for it. The drug war.
sand

Offline Kieran

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4119
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2002, 01:51:31 PM »
I see.

Front page of our local newspaper sports the picture of a former student of mine who just suffocated his 5-month-old son because the boy was crying. Seems the little nipper was interrupting the beauty rest of this recreational druggy that just couldn't find the motivation to get a job- much less get out of bed- and something had to be done. So the young man took his pillow, laid it over the face of the infant lying next to him, and went back to his drug-induced sleep.

Friend of mine from high school was meat-cleavered to death over a drug deal gone bad.

Another friend of mine was high and sitting in the back seat of a car at a gas station. His friend went inside to pay for the gas, and my friend begins playing with his father's service .45. You guessed it, he blew his own head off.

I could go on, but it won't matter. You are convinced drugs are no problem at all. Me, I walk past the ghosts of the past, people with promise who aren't going anywhere anymore because of drugs or alcohol, or worse, have resorted to crime to feed a habit they cannot afford, or accidentally or purposely killed someone when under the influence. What I can't understand is how a smart guy like you cannot see the connection.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2002, 02:07:43 PM »
So sandman what would happend if the "drug war" ended or whatever it is exactly that you want changed happend?

In other words tell us what you would do if you were Fuhrer?

Offline easymo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2002, 02:50:23 PM »
While most of the research attempting to delineate the causes of child maltreatment and substance abuse has focused on familial and individual factors, the social environment clearly plays a role (Cicchetti and Olsen 1990).

Factors such as community norms, neighbourhood disorganisation, cultural disenfranchisement (particularly applicable to indigenous peoples), and the unavailability of community education on either substance abuse or child maltreatment have been posited as exacerbating the risk of both child maltreatment and substance abuse.

Poor school performance, truancy and leaving school early correlate with a greater risk of substance abuse in adolescence. These factors also correlate with the maltreatment of children from addicted families (Gottfredson 1986, as cited in Hayes and Emshoff 1993).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is no  coincidence that the  rape ratliff was being persued for was his step daughter.

Offline Kieran

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4119
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2002, 03:04:33 PM »
Quote
Poor school performance, truancy and leaving school early correlate with a greater risk of substance abuse in adolescence. These factors also correlate with the maltreatment of children from addicted families (Gottfredson 1986, as cited in Hayes and Emshoff 1993).


I agree partially, but I think it is the other way around. Drugs lead to truancy, not vice versa.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2002, 04:13:03 PM »
Guys... To continue the drug war or not is off topic.

The drug war is simply cited as a reason for prison overcrowding and the early parole of criminals. Is this not true?

The drug war is again cited as the reason why our law enforcement agencies are understaffed (or lack the time/resources to pursue other more violent criminals). Could this also be true?

You'll get no argument from me regarding the dangers from drug addiction, Kieran. It's the war itself and the consequences of waging it that I question. (But that's another thread.)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2002, 04:19:49 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline Kieran

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4119
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2002, 04:24:30 PM »
It's a definite conundrum, but your proposed solution so far is unacceptable to me. What you seem to suggest is, since we cannot hope to catch everyone, and even if we did, we cannot house them all, we should drop our hands in defeat. This isn't the solution.

And don't even begin to talk about replacing the current program with education to prevent people from getting hooked in the first place. It hasn't worked yet, and certainly won't on its own.

The way to end the problem is to cut off the drugs altogether. That in itself may be unrealistic, but as long as people can get their hands on drugs, they will take them.

Further, had there been no drug laws, it would have been one less thing against Ratliff. Now, let's say you are right, and he wouldn't have been desperate. He gets taken alive, but now, since it is only TWO strikes against him, he gets paroled down the road. Next time it might not be so happy an ending, and you know darn well there WOULD be a next time. As I said before, there is no evidence I have ever seen to suggest sexual offenders EVER rehabilitate. Sure, he would have to register as an offender- big deal. He would merely hunt outside of his neighborhood, which he would probably do anyway.

Edit: Sorry, you're right, this is stuff for another thread.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
kidnapped CA girls,their dates just let it happen?
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2002, 04:33:48 PM »
Hmmm... did I propose a solution?
sand