Author Topic: Brief thoughts on Sadam  (Read 1971 times)

Offline rogwar

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2002, 04:33:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wsnpr



They have sniffing devices in place that can detect anthrax.


Really? That is an interesting development in science. Do you have anything on this device?

Offline rogwar

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2002, 04:36:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


I rather doubt it. Attacking the U.S. directly would be incredibly foolish. Hussein is smart enough to have remained in power this long and he's smart enough to know that. As long as he plays the "victim" card, he'll have support from other Arab nations and Europe.


That's a very clear and concise anaysis my friend and fellow flying zoo member.

Oh, I saw this picture and thought of some people. Here it is for you ;)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2002, 07:20:27 PM by rogwar »

Offline plumbob

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2002, 07:16:57 PM »
Well the best argument that anyone can seem to come up with is that Iraq has ABC (atmomic, biological, chemical) weapons, well do you know who else has ABC weapons? Isreal and South Africa both do, they had a join test of a VERY small device that they launched into space.  It was detected by an aging cold war era satillite system that was put in place after the treaty banning testing of nukes in space.

South Africa claims to have destoryed there entire nuclear stockpile, Isreal still has theirs, though they havent declared it they have several undergroud factories and refineries.  An isreali scientist was arrested by an isreali secret agent in Italy, the scientist fled after he found out what he was working on.

So really, the "We cant let stupid pople have nukes" argument it pretty much invalid.  The current leader of isreal isnt much more stable that Saddam. And yet, they are our closest allies in the Mid-East.

Oh and guess why Iraq may have "The Bomb" France and the US BOTH sold "Fast-Breeder" reactors to Itaq in the 80's.  These are the reactors used to make plutonium :rolleyes:

Talk abotu lack of foresight....

Offline rogwar

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2002, 07:26:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by plumbob

Oh and guess why Iraq may have "The Bomb" France and the US BOTH sold "Fast-Breeder" reactors to Itaq in the 80's.  These are the reactors used to make plutonium :rolleyes:

Talk abotu lack of foresight....


Canada has not helped either with their CANDU reactor technology.

Offline senna

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LOL
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2002, 07:54:42 PM »
:D

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #80 on: August 09, 2002, 02:46:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by plumbob
Well the best argument that anyone can seem to come up with is that Iraq has ABC (atmomic, biological, chemical) weapons, well do you know who else has ABC weapons? Isreal and South Africa both do, they had a join test of a VERY small device that they launched into space.  It was detected by an aging cold war era satillite system that was put in place after the treaty banning testing of nukes in space.

South Africa claims to have destoryed there entire nuclear stockpile, Isreal still has theirs, though they havent declared it they have several undergroud factories and refineries.  An isreali scientist was arrested by an isreali secret agent in Italy, the scientist fled after he found out what he was working on.

So really, the "We cant let stupid pople have nukes" argument it pretty much invalid.  The current leader of isreal isnt much more stable that Saddam. And yet, they are our closest allies in the Mid-East.

Oh and guess why Iraq may have "The Bomb" France and the US BOTH sold "Fast-Breeder" reactors to Itaq in the 80's.  These are the reactors used to make plutonium :rolleyes:

Talk abotu lack of foresight....


Have you actually read what the rest of us have posted in this thread? Or do you just look at the headline and make stuff up as you go?

The problem with Iraq is not only that they have B&C weapons, and they are actively trying to aquire nuclear capability. It is also that they are one of the largest terrorist supporters in the world. It is also the fact that their dictator, Saddam Hussein is a raving lunatic who has no hesitations whatsoever to use chemical or bioligical weapons on his enemies.

Now the combination of
insane dictator,
who is funding, organizing and supporting of some of the worlds worst terrorist organizations,
who is stockpiling biological and chemical weapons, and trying to aquire nukes,
who has no scruples against using any weapon against his enemies,
who has no second thoughts against attacking women and children using whatever weapons he has in his inventory,    
who tortures, imprisons and enslaves his own people,
who is the self declared enemy of the western civilization in general, and USA and Israel in particular
who is actively working to achieve his goal of the complete annihilation of Israel and any supporters they have

can only be found in Iraq.

And there it must be destroyed, else it will (try to) destroy us.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2002, 07:56:54 AM »
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)


He (Cheney) is the most untrustworthy politician I've seen in a long while. And we have plenty to choose from over here.

BS.


Trustworthyness seems to be secondary.... you see there once was this man from Arkansas who ran for president...

Back to Saddam.  It doesn't matter whether he was involved with WTC/Pentagon plots or not, he broke the terms of the Gulf war armistice with the coalition / UN, and the sanctions are only hurting Iraqi masses, not causing his capitulation.

If we want to hold him to the agreements he made at the end of the war, then round two seems to unfortunately be required.
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Offline Toad

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #82 on: August 09, 2002, 08:31:39 AM »
Relax, Hortlund.

You don't need to convince these guys. They have nothing to do with it.

I'm near certain the decision has already been made to "remove" Saddam. I think it has enough support in both parties.

It'll get done. And when it is done anyone with any common sense will know it's better done than undone.
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Offline Sandman

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #83 on: August 09, 2002, 10:31:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

And there it must be destroyed, else it will (try to) destroy us.


That's all part of the plan. Knock over the U.S. and then go after Sweden. :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by Toad
It'll get done. And when it is done anyone with any common sense will know it's better done than undone.


It just might, but Dubya is going to have to gain support from a lot more countries. Otherwise, it'll just end up hurting the U.S.

Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Back to Saddam. It doesn't matter whether he was involved with WTC/Pentagon plots or not, he broke the terms of the Gulf war armistice with the coalition / UN, and the sanctions are only hurting Iraqi masses, not causing his capitulation.


Why is it that the U.S. has a major hard on over this issue, but the U.N. does not?
sand

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #84 on: August 09, 2002, 10:47:37 AM »
Well, suppose Saddam hits the US with a bio attack using smallpox. Do you think that might spread outside the US borders or not?

Man exactly how naive are you?

Offline Sandman

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2002, 10:52:35 AM »
Probably as naive as you are paranoid.
sand

Offline Toad

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2002, 10:56:56 AM »
Well, I'll tell ya Sandman.......

I'm one of the ones that thinks this thing is better done than undone.

I do think Saddam needs to go. Just like I think it would have been wonderful if someone had X'ed out Adolph Hitler long before the invasion of Poland. Saddam with N/B/C weaponry is a pretty disquieting thought, for me anyway.

OTOH

I also think that it's going to be pretty hard to fulfill the requirements of "Just War" in this case without a whole lot more evidence and/or provocation than we presently have. That bothers me more than just a little.

So, while I think it's better done than undone...... wholeheartedly...... I also think the US doesn't have causus belli.

How about an old fashioned assassination instead?  ;)  j/k

The whole situation sux. Can't kill him 'cause there's no causus belli.  Sure as hell don't want him with N/B/C weaponry at his disposal.

Probably should wait until the US population takes another one on the chin that can be traced directly to Iraq. Could be a long time, several incidents; a lot of US citizenry would have to pay the price for that patience.

While I don't like Saddam, I've never thought he was stupid in the sense that he doesn't know how to play the International Terrorism board game.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2002, 11:45:51 AM »
Can you imagine the conspiracy nutballs that would come out of the closet if we were to take one on the chin from Saddam?

Look at all this "evidence" that we had before the new incident. OK well not much real evidence, but enough to make us concerned. Then we can all get on GWB's case for "not doing anything" just like BillC "didnt do anything" when we had so much on Bin Laden.

I sense a parallel here somewhere.

Offline Sandman

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2002, 11:52:38 AM »
Well... if GWB had as much evidence as BC did, we would already be in Iraq.
sand

Offline Toad

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2002, 12:44:48 PM »
Well MT, do you feel there's enough evidence to justify war under the "Just War" requirements?

Just War Theory

I don't really think there is and the problem is mainly in the nature of the enemy. Terrorism by shadow groups makes it pretty hard to fulfill the requirements under the theory in order to "legitimately" attack a Nation State that has gone to great pains to hide its links to the terrorists.

So, do we act with plenty of suspicion and fear for the future but without "just cause"?

Or do we wait and get hit over and over again by a shadow enemy until we finally find a "provable link" to Saddam and thus have "just cause"? (If there ever is one.)

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Sandman, clarify what you just said there. You think we now have sufficient evidence or that BC did and didn't act on it? Or what.. ya got me :confused: here.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!