Author Topic: Warbirds price dropping to $19.95  (Read 1249 times)

Offline Revvin

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2002, 11:43:58 AM »
Warbirds III is getting better but if they want me to commit to 6 or 12 months payment up front I want to see how much commitment 'Groundhogday' Bill Stealey is going to show to Warbirds. Stealey is more interested in other titles he can make off the back of the WB engine IMO and I feel this is distracting hte team as work is done on his 'ASS' :rolleyes: (good grief could they not come up with anything worse?)

Offline AKSWulfe

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2002, 11:48:27 AM »
Il2 is more realistic in it's FM.... depending on whether or not it will get revised again in it's next patch. ;)
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Offline Sox62

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2002, 01:02:00 PM »
If new sucribers also have to pay up front for six months to get that price,then it seems to me they're just grabbing the money and don't expect you to stick around.

No thanks.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2002, 01:06:32 PM »
I don't have IL2, never had the demo or the latest release.

Sat next to Milo at the con and he loaded it up and I watched him fly it.

Seemed pretty "wallowy" to me as I watched him saddle up on buffs and shoot at them.

So, any comments on that? As I said, I haven't "flown" it, so I can only speak from watching Milo struggle to hold it steady. Could have been Milo, for all I know.  :)
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Offline Wlfgng

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2002, 01:51:53 PM »
IMO you really need to spend some time adjusting the sensitivity of the joystick.  Once I did that I got away from the 'wallowy' feeling.

Offline easymo

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2002, 01:57:17 PM »
Since the thread is about cost. I have to admit that IL2 has intrigued me, in that regard.  Looking around other game sites, I have discovered that there are still people playing EAW online. 8 player, I guess. I think it was about 20 bucks new. and it has lasted for years.  IL2 is about 40$ and may last for years also.  32 players is a big enough furball to require your SA skills.  You have to wonder about paying 160 to 240 dollars a year for a bunch of people playing on the other side of an arena.

  I did try IL2's demo. It felt a little wallowy.  I suspect that has more to do with what I am use to (AH), then realism.  People say the demo is not the same so that is probably meaningless any way.

Offline Revvin

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2002, 02:08:51 PM »
Unless they've released a new demo I've not heard about the old one does'nt do the latest patched IL-2 justice. Feels different to WB or AH but then FM's are such a subjective thing I could'nt really say which was the most accurate. A very beautiful game engine with plenty of eye candy and good fun for a quick firball online but I don't subscribe to the opinions of some that it can replace either WB or AH due to it only being 32 player.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2002, 02:09:45 PM »
Il-2 is very, very fun, once you get used to it. Some planes wallow, some don't, but trim is more important in the game than in others that I have played IMHO.

Offline easymo

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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2002, 02:38:40 PM »
Trim use to be important in AH ;)

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2002, 02:42:06 PM »
i had quite a time finding the right stick settings in il2. after that it was quite steady. Theres quirks but its pretty fun.

trim is an important part of il2.

Offline easymo

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« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2002, 02:43:31 PM »
I have read posts the point out the weakness of the guns, in IL2?  I just left the MA, where I lit uup a Nik, with a P38.   EIGHT times,  at 120 yards.  Never fazed him.   I am a little sensitive about guns right now.:)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2002, 03:15:45 PM »
Once again.. but undoubtedly not for the last time... if a person were to think that trim is a major factor (or should be "real important" in a normal acm situation) that person would be mistaken.

Perhaps, and only perhaps, trim would assume a more important role at the extreme ends of the flight envelope during an acm engagement.

Trim relieves stick force, primarily in mostly static situations (ie: cruise flight).

Trim relieves stick force, primarily in mostly static situations (ie: cruise flight).

Trim relieves stick force, primarily in mostly static situations (ie: cruise flight).

:D

That's really what it is designed to do.

If the pilot is a normal, fit individual the nearly ever changing stick forces in a "dogfight"-type acm engagement wouldn't really be improved or altered by constant trimming this way and that on the elevator. In fact, it might be detrimental overall in terms of not doing other much more important things with your throttle hand.

I know it's hard for some of you to accept but.....

TRIM IS NOT A PRIMARY FLIGHT CONTROL!

....nah, this isn't a "hot button" issue with me.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline easymo

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Warbirds price dropping to $19.95
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2002, 04:11:28 PM »
Tell me toad, where was the auto take off button located in the F4U.  Or the CT button in the P51.  Gemme a brake. Its just a game. HT has made it clear that its a game first. So the question is only, which is more fun?

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2002, 04:34:50 PM »
Without retrimming a Mosquito in WBIII will not be controlable at 410mph.  That seems wrong to me.


I do like the way WBIII enemy icons turn grey once the aircraft has taken fatal damage.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2002, 05:23:45 PM »
Interesting comparisons there Easymo.

Trim....... real aircraft trim..... simply lessens unnecessary workload on the pilot.

For example, you trim for level flight in cruise so that the aircraft will basically stay where it is without constantly minding the stick. This allows you to change radio frequencies, look at a chart, etc. It just eliminates some of the routine workload, allowing you to do something else.

Auto takeoff on the F4U? Same purpose. Who amongst us (that has a few weeks experience) has any difficulty whatsoever in taking off in an AH aircraft? Auto takeoff eliminates some of the routine workload... so we can hit the head, grab another beer or call and order a pizza. Just like trim in a real aircraft, eh? Doesn't affect the FM in the least.

Combat Trim in a P-51? There'd be absolutely no need for Combat Trim in AH if the importance of trim itself hadn't been overemphasized in the intial programming. Trim was made WAY too important and WAY to effective. CT merely was an attempt to ameliorate that situation. So, in this case, CT is a device used to correct a non-routine workload that really shouldn't be there anyway.

But incorrectly and/or deliberately programming trim to act as a primary flight control? Flight model flaw, IMO. Relatively serious one as well. Similar to giving any flight control too much effect. Incorrect in any Flight Simulation, whichever one does it.

Now to perhaps the crux of your post. Fun.

You find the need to use trim in a manner that trim was really not designed to be used "fun".

I'd say it's simply an artificial "difficulty level" setting. Now you may find it more "fun" to artificially set the "difficulty level" higher and I would never argue your opinion there.

To me, it falls into the same category as having the projectiles from the guns artificially disappear from the programming at anything over 250 yards. It would be more difficult, because you'd always have to be in close. Some would undoubtedly find it more "fun" as well. But as an attempt to simulate WW2 gun ballistics it would simply be an error.

Auto take off? A minor compromise. Don't like it? Simple, don't use it. Because using it or not using it really doesn't provide an advantage to a player.

CT? An attempt to correct an flaw in the FM. Don't like it? Don't use it. In this case NOT USING it enhances a player's ability to dogfight if it is used correctly and competently while USING CT actually slightly hampers a player's ability to dogfight. Big difference here between this and auto takeoff. Using trim ahistorically and contary to its true design function actually provides an advantage.

More fun to have an FM feature that is ahistoric and contrary to its original design function? That would be an opinion.

More realistic to have it that way? Absolutely not and that's not opinon.  :D
« Last Edit: August 09, 2002, 05:25:57 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!