Warbirds price dropping to $19.95

[Kieran]

Not that it has anything to do with anything, but I soloed in ultralights in 1.5 hours, mainly because of the familiarity I had with flight sims. As Toad mentioned, the landing pattern and the look of the approach was the only thing that really presented anything approaching a problem, and after a circuit or two, it wasn't a prob. I've since flown light aircraft with similar results (no, I don't have my license).

Creamo and Easymo have a point WRT systems and views in a way... I really do like the views offered by sims like WWIIOL or Il-2. It's always a bit disjointing to come back and play AH and remember I have a straight-six view. It's also interesting to go on autopilot once in a while and watch the controls work inflight (Il-2), especially landing pattern. Of the three mentioned sims, none give me the feeling of leaning forward in the cockpit of a taildragger sitting on the ground like Il-2. Nuances like that are interesting and give sims flavor.

AH is AH, Il-2 is Il-2, and the rest are what they are. If stuff is added to make AH more complex I will like it or not. In the end, there are plenty of options for me to take to get my thrill for simulation.

[Creamo]

Now wait just a Golly-geen minute. All this talk about learning to run complex WWII fighters in 10 minutes is just killing my image of those super responsible sky knights we all call pilots. I was sure modern pilots were wrestling massive complex computer inputs via the CDU that one small mistake would lead to countless casualties. They do, but the WWII guys didn't maybe?

Hell, Im just arguing to argue, but really would like to have cockpits that resemble WWII planes in a WWII game, and something to do, or at least be aware of regarding aircraft systems. IL-2 does it to some degree, (engine heat, prop pitch etc,)which is features, not a nuisance.

I gotta admit, you DO look good with pom poms and pig tails. Seems like alot of effort though defending simple, fair game enhancing effects that simply are missing from AH.

[Toad]

Not defending or promoting anything.. just trying to clear up a few obvious major misconceptions. Like the totally bogus idea that trim is a primary flight control.

Sometimes it's like trying to explain color to a blind man though. 'Cause people take a simple statement like "teach them to start engines in 10 minues" and turn it into "completely mastering a WW2 fighter in 10 minutes or less" just for the sake of argument.

Pilots are just normal folks. No trick to being one if you have reasonable intelligence, reasonable hand/eye coordination and the desire to do it. And the brains to recognize a "good deal" at an early age and prepare yourself to get the job.  

Of course, it's not nearly as "manly" as being the guy that actually wields an actual 1/2" wrench.

[Thrawn]

To quote Admiral Akbar, "Its a trap!".


Which is apropos to, "Nothing".

[Regurge]

Toad, for me AH trim works just like you say it should. Auto-speed and auto-level keep reduce stick forces so i can take my hand off it.

Typical situation for me is I'm trimmed for climb when I spot a furball. First thing I do is manually dail in some left rudder trim and a heap of down elevator, enough to get me roughly trimmed for 300+ speeds. I do that because I'm used to fighting that way. At high speeds it's in trim, and when it gets slow I naturally pull back alot more on the stick and add right rudder rather than re-trimming. On the other hand it feel wierd to me flying fast in a plane trimmed for low speed, though I could fight just as well if I were used to it.

Improving turn performance in AH with trim is BS. All it does is reduce the stick deflection (and force) required to do it. The exception is at compression speeds where trim can be used to pull out of a dive. But I understand real pilots did that too.

The max amount of trim you can put in may be to much, since you can get enough to black out in most planes. I dunno about that since I've never flown anything. But all those things you said trim should do is pretty much what I use it for in the game.

[Toad]

As I said, the autopilot functions through using the trim modeling. So the "autopilot" feature is really "auto trim". And that does work correctly for a static situation like a default climb. It's merely pitch trimming to hold an airspeed. No biggie, that's what it's supposed to do.

As to increasing turn performance, it does. Try this.

Take a 109 and go into a hard turn using elevator travel only, no trim. Get to full aft stick, then trim full nose up. Tell me if the rate increases.

Now HT said they changed it in 1.04 so that end elevator angle would be the same using trim or not.

However, it seems like it still adds angle in a Mustang; it seems like it still adds angle in a FM2. I use it all the time. I trim for a rough corner speed and when I'm saddled and the fight degenerates into a turn fight with the stick full aft and the stall horn whining, I just hit the nose up trim and watch the nose move right out in front of him.

I see an increase in my rate. I'm not supposed to see it since 1.04 but it's working for me.

[Regurge]

Well I see why we disagree on trim improving turn rate. With my setup, full aft stick *always* causes immediate stall and spin if done at low speed. This happens for me in every plane regardless of where the trim is set. Even with full nose down trim I can easily stall a 109 at any speed up to corner velocity.

The one exception for me is the spit1. I can hold full aft stick for several seconds but it still eventually causes a stall. Trim full up or down seems to make no difference.

I'd check your stick scaling to make sure the '90' slider is all the way up. Btw I'm using the default scale settings.

[Toad]

My slider's all the way up, always has been.

All I can tell you is it works for me.

[Regurge]

I believe it does work for you Toad. I'm suggesting that there is something wrong with your stick/calibration/whatever that's keeping you from getting full elevator deflection. You should be able to pull back enough to cause blackout or stall regardless of how the plane is trimmed.

I suppose it could be my setup that's wrong but there's not much reason for me to change it.

[Kieran]

Regurge-

I have the same setup, or at least results, that you do. Trim will not give me the effect Toad described, at least not any better than just pulling the stick back a bit more. Sounds to me like he has stick set up for half throw or something like that.

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by Gadfly
AKSwulfe, your memory must be short; every sims FM changes with updates, including this one.  That has nothing to do with the "correctness" of the FM, it just means that they were able to refine it further in some way(or fix a boo-boo).

No, actually, this sim hasn't changed it's FM since 1.03. Other planes have been added and then tweaked- but Il2 goes through a major FM revision every patch/upgrade.
-SW

[Staga]

SW do you have any idea if FM is tweaked 'cause of whining of players or 'cause they have found some planes do not achieve speeds/ turnrates/climbrates found from charts made by TsAGI or Luftwaffe test center in Rechlin?

I'd like to think it's because of latter

[AKSWulfe]

'cause of whining of players or '

I said that?
-SW

[Boroda]

Originally posted by AKSWulfe


No, actually, this sim hasn't changed it's FM since 1.03. Other planes have been added and then tweaked- but Il2 goes through a major FM revision every patch/upgrade.
-SW

Not true.

Versions before 2.01 didn't have spin. 2.73 had some control reaction tweak to awoid warp-rolls. 3.0 beta (at least as far as I watched it) had some FM features disabled because HS couldn't understand what Pyro had done in original (pre-Albanian)  Warbirds. He never did, otherwise "Albanian" B-24 shouldn't be more maneuverable then 109K over 35,000ft.

BTW, there are rumours that next IL-2 "Shturmovik" patch will be the last one for the original release.

[AKSWulfe]

AH Boroda, not WB.
-SW