Charlton Heston's speech

[fd ski]

I was labeled a racist myself for talking about "The Bell Curve" book.

Selective memory Mike. You were called the rasist because of the conclusions you drew from the arguments, some of which included that particular book.

We've beaten that horse to death too. Book in question has been refuted on all levels, starting from using only statistic data that fits author's view, lack of standards in research and faulty logic.

I know that you like that book a lot. I'm sad to say, however, that it is a wrong works to base your view of the word on.

Drop me an e-mail at bartek@mindspring.com
let's take this discussion offline.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Mielta, not much of a point.
Speach in question is a self-rightous rant of nostalgic person who can't get over the "days that passed".

Who is responsible for the way america is today ?
It isn't media, it isn't universities. It is american people. For they buy IceTs CDs. They are the ones who are not outraged at some things that Mr. Henson might consider outragious.

His stories of political correctness, had they been put into a short news clip, would be called "biased sound bite, so typical of today's media".  There is always more to the story. I guess it's ok for most of you, since story supports your particular view of things.

To sum things up, i'll shorten the speach to one sentence for you:
"You are free to think what you want, but you must think my way".

Scores: ( out of 10 )

Level of nostalgia : 10 ( With Dr. King before it was fashionable !!! Oh my goodness. This really deserves 11 )

Coherence:  4 - Too jumpy. From topic to topic, lacking good structure.

Poor little abused me symptom/paranoia: 13 - look at all of them ganging up on me for everything i do / say. it's all because of the guns !!!

Value: 2 - Had the speach been given by someone not famous. Not a single person would turn a head.

On top of that, he was a toejamty actor. Republican nomination in 2004 maybe ?

[GRUNHERZ]

Hmm easymo that clearly proves he is a racist!

I'm not sure how just yet, but Sandman, Elfenwolf, Weazel or Karnak will be here and show us in short order.  

[mietla]

Originally posted by weazel



He's so clueless and predictable it's not worth the effort to read his demented rantings.  

Now, that is one hell of an open liberal mind at work.

Address his points one by one  and say where you disgree and why. You may even try to argue that your point of view is more valid/true/commonsensical/reasonable than his.


As it is, you said completely nothing.

[Shuckins]

During the McCarthy Era, some Hollywood stars, such as Zero Mostel, were blacklisted for their alleged association with Communist organizations.  Many members of the Hollywood elite came to their defense and spoke out boldly against this persecution.

This same Hollywood community awarded Charlton Heston with an oscar or two at the peak of his career.  He was a well respected and loved member of that community.

I guess things have changed considerably in Hollywood in the last 40 years.  Heston fell out of favor with the new generation of Hollywood actors when he dared to speak up for conservative political causes.  No major acting roles have come his way in a long time.  In effect, he has been blacklisted by the very community who protested that particular evil so vehemently during the 1950's.  

A corporate worker who was denied a promotion or salary increase because of their political affiliations can sue their employer discrimination.  Heston has no such recourse.  After all, who could he sue?  

So he has every right to discuss Hollywood's bias in a speech.


Regards, Shuckins

[Maverick]

I find this interesting. The concepts I posted about earlier such as personal freedom in addition to personal responsibility were in fact liberal concepts. The fact that a political party that came along later (Libertarians) adopted them does not make them the property of that party. If believing in personal liberty makes me a conservative, then so be it. Please keep in mind that it was your decision to call me that, not mine weasel. I suppose I should be thankful that you would deign to instruct me in my beliefs. Perish the thought that I should have my own self image and concepts. How fortunate I am that I have you to tell me how I think and how wrong I am for thinking thus.   And you are a liberal?????? Gee I thought liberalism was a way for INDIVIDUALS to think. Thanks for telling me it really means telling others how THEY should think. I was really misinformed. Damn my teachers for telling me it was MY responsibility to make decisions, think for myself and be responsible for my actions.

[Thrawn]

I think Admiral Akbar said it best when he said, "It's a trap!".




PS: GRUNHERZ, can you please make youy sig bigger?  Thanks!:)

[mietla]

Originally posted by fd ski

Speach in question is a self-rightous rant of nostalgic person who can't get over the "days that passed".

Say what? The way I took it is:

"Say what you want and take the consequences"

In other words, fight for your views whatever the price.

Who is responsible for the way america is today ?
It isn't media, it isn't universities. It is american people. For they buy IceTs CDs. They are the ones who are not outraged at some things that Mr. Henson might consider outragious.

You're right. Heston is saddened by that and so am I. But still I am against any government censorship of anything.

The children are the exception, but this is mine and my wife's job to make sure that my kids do not see/hear what the ought not to, not the government's.

"You are free to think what you want, but you must think my way".

Obviously you took it differently. Read some previous posts. Miko (I think it was Miko) highlighted the difference.

Heston proposes a civil disobedience to protest what he deems offensive (including the consequences). He did not call the cops on them, did he?

You libs go the easy way. You highjack the courts to enforce your un-Constitutional PC, and let the governemnt do your work without you being exposed.

Same thing with income tax. Why steal and risk the consequences, let the dems do the work for you, and then you can call the victim selfish, and the thief virtuos.

On top of that, he was a toejamty actor. Republican nomination in 2004 maybe ?

Have to partly agree on the "actor" part. He is an old school "theatrical" actor, not my first choice for the movie, but hech Rosie O'Donnell is a so called actress.

On 2004, nah, he's too straight for it.


One of these days, we just HAVE TO take it off-line. We'll need a lot of booz for this one. Last man standing... what do you say?

I'm taking Funked as my second, who's yours?

 

[senna]

>The death of civility. The number of people who can even define
>the term is rapidly dwindling.
>
>Why is that, do you think?

True, blame it on societies natural progression towards the future and the ever changing music and art trends each year to cater to the millions of yuts in the civilized world as they try to set their initial premark on life. Blame it on human nature as well as humans advances. Mr Heston, I suspect is truly a man of antiquity and I suspect that he admires and has been inspired but much of what was great from the past. Yet hes an artist so hes torn with forward thinking at the same time. Typical an artist who is torn, not unusual at all or so in his own way. Personally I like civility as its the glue of society I believe though as we move towards the future some lack of it is probably required in order to grow and break the rigidities of the past. All in all its just my opinion. Now I gots to go buy me some more smokes and maybe an iceecreemy bar, yum yum.

Oh and also an icecream cone to go with that.

[GRUNHERZ]

Heh Thrawn, I was planning on editing it last night but got distracted. Thanks for the reminder.

[easymo]

Protests and counterprotests, even countercounterprotests, were scheduled. The glove was tossed down by the Committee Against Silence, a hastily assembled agglomeration of liberals, leftists and the blacklisted, which announced a public protest outside the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion the night of the Oscars, March 21. Charlton Heston appeared on Good Morning America, flummoxing interviewer Aaron Brown with a defense of Kazan and McCarthyism because There Was a Cold War Going On. "This was very serious stuff," Heston intoned to Brown. "We were fighting a war." --------------------------------

The right seemed to be winning the PR war because Hollywood, predominantly Democratic and liberal, was largely silent. The film community, where the blacklist played out on its most visible terrain, is ever a company town, and was running scared. "I'd say that fear is still rampant in Hollywood," assesses Norma Barzman (Luxury Girls, Never Say Goodbye), who was blacklisted along with her husband, Ben (The Boy With Green Hair, Back to Bataan), and forced to move to Europe for their livelihood. Barzman, canvassing the town for names and cash for the trade-paper protest, found that the big names would not call back, or offered their dough silently. She laughs when recounting a conversation with a television producer who was willing to donate, but not openly. "Norma," he confided, "I'll give you money but I'm in the middle of a deal. You understand."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you agree with, him or not, you have to admit the guy was right out there with his beliefs.  The leftys, on the other hand, where covering their own ass, as usual.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Wotan


at he hand of other black males


the racist thing to do would be to ignore or encourage it. Seems to me chuck stand against the ice t types is not so much the wording but type of mind set in encourages. That crap is not  a reflection on "society" or ice ts enviroment. Wheres he living?  it damn sure aint the ghetto.

Tom Metzger (Fallbrook, CA own Hitler wanna) lost a multi million dollar judgement when the jury found that the literature and music he distibuted resulted in in the death of an Ethopian immigrant. Those who beat the guy to death had read liturature from toms group.

But suppose ice ts art was filled with rape the little jews or kill the the black cops. I am sure you hypocritical leftist would be out in front defending it as art.

Chuck never called for laws banning ice ts speech he used his right to free speech and right as a share holder to counter it.

On other hand leftist are the ones who consistantly are for laws against thought.

No the racist thing to do would be to ASS-U-ME that race is the main determining factor in your conclusions.

Metzger wrote a PERSONAL letter to the skinheads in Portland that instructed them on how to attack minorities:

On November 12, 1988, skinheads from the Portland Oregon group, East Side White Pride, attacked three Ethiopian immigrants with a baseball bat and steel-toed boots. One of the immigrants - Mulugeta Seraw - was killed. Investigation into the murder resulted in three convictions and revealed close connections between the skinhead gang and White Aryan Resistance.

Among the most critical of these links was a letter to the skinheads signed by Metzger, stating in part: "Soon you will meet Dave Mazzella, our national vice-president, who will be in Portland to teach you how we operate and to help you understand more about WAR…." In fact, Mazzella did instruct the gang - including how to attack people of color. He would later explain that "Tom Metzger said the only way to get respect from skinheads is to teach them how to commit violence against blacks, against Jews, Hispanics, any minority. The word will spread, and they'll know our group is one you can respect."

Chuck did the same thing in going to the shareholders of Time Warner that he raled against in the beginning of his speech.

Interesting how you played down the actual role of Metzger in the attacks.

[DmdBT]

Originally posted by Wotan



Tom Metzger (Fallbrook, CA own Hitler wanna)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

not to be confused with Tom Metzger (Pasadena, MD own fighter-pilot wanna-be)

just keeping things cleared up here... now back to your BBS right vs left battle of the twit.. err wits already in progress...

Lonz

[Wotan]

Watch the Bill Moyers Documentary about the trail. The legal experts that discussed it said that Metzgers newspaper and telephone message service and other racist products are what convinced the jury. Mezzalla was a proven liar who had a deal with the portland police to get out of violent crimes he was accused of. The guys who were convicted had committed numerous violent acts prior to ever hearing of Metzger or mazzella. They read a copy of Metzger letter it had no instruction. They used his newspaper and a video tape  from a speech to show "instruction".

I dont need play down anything. A jury found him guilty. The only point here is the hypocrtical lying left. You are the typical leftist hypocritical liar that throws  out racist and nazi as a sorta trump to prop up your weak arguements. Much like you are doing now.

I made no assumptions,  black people kill black people you can look it up on your own. Now the reasons / solution are social.

Chuck used the tools he had to combat and confront what he sees as wrong. Unlike leftists he didnt run to big poppa Federal government for a solution.

He used his freedom of speech. Leftist use the government to stiffle speech which they dont like.

Or they call you a racist........

[Udie]

Originally posted by midnight Target

Chuck did the same thing in going to the shareholders of Time Warner that he raled against in the beginning of his speech.
 

 Actually I think he was a shareholder himself.  I believe that was a shareholders meeting and he was using his first amendment right to free speech.  Though I don't believe the song should be censored, nor do I like the song.  

[Wotan]

he didnt censor the song you can still buy/download/ listen to it all ya want. he convinced time warner to drop his contract.

But chuck didnt do this alone Time Warner had plenty of folks writing them and pressuring them to do something. Chuck may have even played up his roll in the whole thing.