Lets see who can answer all theses questions

[fdiron]

Nuke'em till they glow then shoot'em in the dark.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh sidthekid the total Japanese WW2 casualties were 1,076,967


1940:                 73,075,071    
1945:                 71,998,104  
Difference:         1,076,967


And these are from Japanese sources.

http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/pfe/jpeak.htm

 

LOL!!

So if I've understood your numbers correct, not a single child was born between 1940-1945 in Japan?

[midnight Target]

sid uses the same casualty counter that Hortlund uses for Dresden.

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by fdiron
Nuke'em till they glow then shoot'em in the dark.

It's fortunate that AH doesn't have any japanese players... but wait, it does!

It's fortunate that they don't usually read the O'Club then...



Daniel

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by midnight Target
sid uses the same casualty counter that Hortlund uses for Dresden.

Lets compare statements shall we?

Hortlund:
We will never know how many died in Dresden.

sid:
In the firebombings of Tokyo, 1 million plus died

Midnight target:
Im a dumb diddly who doesnt know what Im talking about.  

[sidthekid]

information is from...Library of Congress Worldwar 1939-1945 Aerial Operations,Americans and United States ,Army air corps-history-world war.


 ISBN 0 -8094-3343-5 aacr2
 isbn o-80943342-7 by Robert C. Mikesh Curator of the National Air and space museum.




  Exact words from investigators or the Tokyo raids were." for the Japanese this first fire raid was a Catasrophe. The fires quickly raged out of control. The heat rose to 1,800degrees f. As reported by bombers hitting city it caused updrafts that bonced planes like leaves in a gail storm" (according to US pilots) 267,000 builds were destoryed the official death toll was 83,793 but it seems certain that the number of dead was actually much higher. Many thousands were drowned in the sumida river trying to escape the fierce heat, and many bodies were never recovered. Others were burned to ash" Tokyo's population went from Five million to 2 1/3 million. We conclude that most civilians were instantly cremated in their homes as at 1000 degrees it would take 3 seconds to turn humans to ash"...  this report was signed by...Wibo van de Linde phd (Amsterdam) Dr john dunn( Melbourne)  Dag Chistensen PHD (oslo) and Dr.Traudl Lessing (Vienna)

[Hortlund]

Official death toll: 83 793
Your claim: "over 1 million"

That is quite a leap.

As for the Tokyo population, what dates are those two population figures from? I seriously doubt that the first one is from the day before the attack and the second is from the day after. If you were to say that the first figure is from 1940 and the second one is from 1946 (or something like that) I'd believe you (but them of cource, those figures would not prove a thing about the casualties from the bombings).

[Masherbrum]

Actually there a was "military target" in Hiroshima.  A Mitsubishi factory that churned out LVT's for them.  

Karaya2

[sidthekid]

After Fire bombing of tokyo a group of doctors and professors visited toyko at the request of the Japanese goverment. There report was confirmed by US Goverment. and by Japanese goverment.  Go to Libary of congress Report  ISBN 0-8094-3343-5 AACR2 Here is last paragraph from report made by. Dr. Wibo Van De Linde (Amsterdam),Dr. John Dunn (melbourne), Dag Christensen Phd (Oslo) Traudl Lessing phd (Vienna)


" For the Japanese this first fire raid was a major Catastrophe. The fires Quickly raged out of control. The heat rose to 1800Degrees f. Violent updrafts even bounced US bombers thru air like falling leaves in a violent storm.16 square miles of tokyo were burning.267,000 structures, went up in flames. The official Japanese death toll was stated to be 83,793 based on remains found.But it seems certain the number of dead was actually much high. Many thousands were drowned in the Sumida rivertrying to escape the fierce heat, and many bodies were never recovered. Others were burned to ash in a instant. 2100 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on tokyo. Its population before bombing was 5 million after raid it was 2 1/3 million. Many could never be traced down or bodie recovered. Japanese death figures are based on only remains that were intact. this leads us to figure death toll could be as high as 1.4 million people who simply turned to ashes. the human body will turn to ash in 10 seconds in a oven of 1000 degrees and this was at least as hot as 1800 degrees based on melting of some metals and other stress testing by Dr. Linde"

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Lets compare statements shall we?

Hortlund:
We will never know how many died in Dresden.

sid:
In the firebombings of Tokyo, 1 million plus died

Midnight target:
Im a dumb diddly who doesnt know what Im talking about.  

I'd like a ruling here!

[AKDejaVu]

I think the issue here is not if it was right to drop the bombs or not (arguable, but a strategic decision, it's war), but if it was right to drop it on two cities with no strategic value, no military targets whatsoever, and with people that had lived there without even thinking about being a target for the entirety of the war.

I'm sorry, but that's a myth.  I've stood at ground zero at Nagasaki... there were military production factories there.  At least that's what the Japanese museum says.  I have a tendancy to believe them.

AKDejaVu

[-dead-]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh sidthekid the total Japanese WW2 casualties were 1,076,967
1940:                 73,075,071    
1945:                 71,998,104  
Difference:         1,076,967

Obvious maths flaw #1:
1940? Try 1937 (if you want to be generous about it and ignore the 1932 stuff).
Obvious maths flaw #2:
So during those 5 years no children were born at all
Unlike [using the same source]
1935-1940 (perhaps most telling seeing as Japan was at war during most of these 5 years too)
1935:                 69,254,148    
1940:                 73,075,071
Difference:         +3,820,923
or
1945:                 71,998,104    
1950:                 83,199,637
Difference:         +11,201,533

[sidthekid]

Midnight wouldn't call u dumb i've seen you invest alot of time and effort to answer questions. I stated where my facts came from. Didn't say true without doubt. but go to Yokamagi's book Myths of Japan during war. Even he believes deaths were reported low on purpose to protect japanese pride. They the japanese admit they only counted the bodies they found. and figures on population was from Japanese not US numbers.  I 'll trust independant survey for opposing gov.'s well before i'll accept USA or japanese figures. Library of congrees has web site go there lots of information there including how we Kidnaped Dr. Coanda from romania in 1944. ( inventer of jet and many other patents on aero space techs. pLEASE DON'T LUMP ME IN WITH HORTLAND. I don't need to use Vulgarity to express my ideas or try to changes others idea's.

[sidthekid]

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/marerror.htm



 1.5 million Japanese military died in ww2.

 400,000 cilivilians died in japan in 1941 alone so maybe we need to look closer before we accuse others their numbers are off.

[AKSWulfe]

400,000 cilivilians died in japan in 1941 alone so maybe we need to look closer before we accuse others their numbers are off.

????????? Who killed those 400,000 civilians?

War between America and Japan didn't officially happen until Dec 7th, 1941.
-SW