Author Topic: please unperk spitxiv for a while (Read 1030 times)

Nashwan · « **Reply #45 on:** August 15, 2002, 04:37:24 PM »

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Sorry, but the Spitfire contemporary of the P-51D is as I have stated many times before was the Spitfire IX, the Spit XIV was a minor sideshow compared to the IX usage in the late stages of the war. Yes we have a "hybrid" model spit, but its definitely a 1944 model or later.

If it's an early 1944 model, it's 15 - 20mph too slow below 10,000ft, and needs to be fixed.

If it's a mid 1944 onwards Spit IX, it's about 30 - 40mph too slow at low alt, and needs to be fixed.

The AH Spit IX is a mid 1942 model, with incorrect armament options. It's not a 1944 model.

Karnak · « **Reply #46 on:** August 15, 2002, 04:56:34 PM »

Vermillion,

Pray tell, it what way is the AH Spitfire Mk IX a 1944 fighter?

It isn't. Its a bloody 1942 fighter with the option for the .50s that it shouldn't have. Do the .50s really change it that much? Hell no. It is performance that counts, and it performs like a July, 1942 Spitfire Mk IX.

I agree that the P-51D was much more important to the Allies than was the Spitfire Mk XIV, to suggest otherwise would be silly. However, the Spitfire Mk XIV was also, design wise, the contempary of the P-51D, and that is what I am refering too. The 1943 Spitfire LF.Mk IX wasn't even a contempary of the P-51D, let alone the 1942 Spitfire F.Mk IX. You are distorting things even more drastically than I am by making that claim.

Hazed,

Thing is, the Spitfire in general is not my favorite WWII fighter. J_A_B's favorite fighter is the P-51D, not just any P-51. Likewise my favorite fighter is the Spitfire F.Mk XIVc, not just any Spitfire.

Seagoon,

In what way are we losing sight of that? Most of us (other than Fester) are not asking for the Spitfire Mk XIV to be unperked. A substantial number of us feel that the perk icons render the perk system moot and useless. My favorite fighter is in the game, yet everytime I use it I get frusterated, angry and contemplate canceling my account. That surely isn't the intended purpose of the perk system. What kind of "reward" system just makes people frusterated and angry?

The F4U-1C demostrated quite well that the perk price alone is enough to control usage. The perk icons have no purpose other than taking away any reason to use a fighter that doesn't outperform the most common free fighters.

phishnut · « **Reply #47 on:** August 15, 2002, 05:13:42 PM »

I agree wholeheartedly with Karnak.

I will not fly high perk rides (except an occasional 262) simply because they are not fun. The perk cost penalizes the pilot enough, and if it doesn't, the perk cost should be raised until it does. I should not have to fly so conservatively that the plane is not fun to fly or risk the wrath of every enemy pilot within 6k of my plane. I could have much more fun and survive much longer in a nonperked, earlier variant of the same plane. As it stands, the benefits do not outweigh the costs.

Some might say that, if the perk tags are removed, those planes will fill the skies and dominate the MA. Well, simply up the perk cost until they don't. That will keep them rare and make them fun to fly.

Being the recipient of a gangbang or flying ultra-conservatively is just not fun.

(I refuse to fly the spit btw, since it's a dweeb ride)

Urchin · « **Reply #48 on:** August 15, 2002, 05:52:46 PM »

I agree with Karnak 100% on this one (like y'all care what I think

).

We've got perked planes that any halfway decent LA-7 pilot can kill or at least get away from with ease.

The TA-152 is particular is a crappy deal, I fly it sometimes anyway though because I've got a ton of perk points and it stays up in the sky longer than any other german plane.

The Spit14 is a good plane. No, it is a great plane. If you fly it the way you'd fly a P-51D or a 190D9, you'll have success in it. You won't have a whole lot of fun, and you'll probably get bounced and die unless you are four or five times more cautious, but you'll have some success.

Or, you can up an LA-7, furball, and then run away with impunity when things start looking bad.

If you want perk-plane performance without the 'gangbang' tag... well, I'm pretty sure everyone here knows what plane to fly.

Voss · « **Reply #49 on:** August 16, 2002, 02:01:53 AM »

In the handfull of fights I've been in this camp (and with the Spit XIV) I've gone in with E, BnZ'd until I was out of ammo, and then returned to base. Yes, I've evaded planes homing in on the icon. Only bad luck has brought me down (midair debris, one-ping spray-and-pray, and one legitimate death that I could have easily avoided).

If a talentless dweeb like me can do it...

Urchin · « **Reply #50 on:** August 16, 2002, 02:09:22 AM »

I understand your position Voss, and I did the same thing last tour when the topic was raised. I hadn't really flown the Spit 14, so I used it on two or three sorties. I remember one was around 4 kills (and that one was me and another guy vs 4 enemy in a low level furball- I survived by dumb luck) and another was 7 or 8 kills (that one I mostly BnZ'ed, and at one point I had another Spit, an LA7, and a TBM (yea, a TBM lol) chasing me around. I got lucky and made the LA7 blow all his speed, then I ran away from all 3 of them.

Thing is- you can do the same thing in the LA7 for free. Thats why I think the Spit14 gets a raw deal with the perk cost AND the icon saying "Hey, I'm a perk plane!".

Hristo · « **Reply #51 on:** August 16, 2002, 05:20:59 AM »

In all honesty, I always considered a La7 a perk plane. Not by price, but by ENY. Its icon was just as inviting as any of the perk icons. You earn a lot of perkies when you shoot one down, almost as much as shooting down some of the perked crowd.

It is free and I like it. Nothing better than some dweeb taking off in La7 from a capped field. I always treated La7s and Spit XIV as the same threat level.

Why do you have to pay for Spit XIV tho - is beyond me

.

Voss · « **Reply #52 on:** August 16, 2002, 05:40:29 AM »

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Originally posted by Hristo
Why do you have to pay for Spit XIV tho - is beyond me .

Because, it's worth it.

I like the La7, too. It's faster on the deck, and for field defense a lightly fueled La7 is hard to beat. But, I think the gunnery is sloppy in the La7. The Spit XIV is a much more stable gun platform.

Yeah, having to choose between an La7 and a Niki (as to which to kill first), I always kill the La7. If, there were a Spit XIV around, it would have top billing.

Vermillion · « **Reply #53 on:** August 16, 2002, 06:52:58 AM »

Karnak, if you don't think the .50 MG's make a difference, well.... I would suggest that you have been debating Luftwobbles so long, they're starting too rub off on you

Urchin. Go shave your back !!

Just kidding bud. Good to see you back on the BBS, and I hope your neck is better. If not, I'll help you setup Nimitz at the next con

Perk Icons. Learn to live with them and accept them. They're not going away any time soon. And stop beating this stinking dead horse every two weeks.

lazs2 · « **Reply #54 on:** August 16, 2002, 08:20:24 AM »

creamo... I don't really want to see any of the perked rides in the current arena. The fact that they are rare is allmost as good but not quite.

as to why a dora or 51 or 14 shouldn't get as many perks as a hurri... well... I think the former planes have the ability to fly risk free in the arena if they are patient enough. There should be some price for flying a risk free plane tho. I think the boredom is price enough but I certainly don't want to encourage such behaviour by giving it a reward in "perks"... I don't even want to legitimize it.

In the case of the hurri... he will die every single time if he has no talent. he will get nothing out of it but a crappy K/D. he has to kill and avoid being killed in a very busy place. Not an easy trick. While he has more targets... he has way more risk and is less likely to land his kills (I think hurris taste like chicken).

I think the balance between risk and kills is rewarded about right now.
lazs

thrila · « **Reply #55 on:** August 16, 2002, 09:02:20 PM »

Ok, here's an idea. Instead of unperking the spitXIV maybe HTC could model a Spit with the performance between the SpitIX and the SpitXIV.

So....how about a clipped wing Spit IX LF.

To save confusion with the spitIX we have already have it could be a SpitXVI (merlin built under license by packard). A bubble canopy, clipped wing Spit XVI would be a great candidate.

Karnak · « **Reply #56 on:** August 16, 2002, 10:39:16 PM »

Vermillion,

The .50s mean jack all.

The Spitfire is functionally armed with two 20mm cannon. Once those are out of ammo the Spit is pretty much harmless and its time to RTB.

The performance that a true 1944 Merlin Spitfire had is far, far more significant that any armament change could possible be. Two 20mm cannon are plenty leathal against fighters, adding more doesn't really affect the Spit's leathality. Making the Spit faster and better climbing gives it a far better chance of getting its guns on you.

If you think two .50s instead of four .303s makes as much, or more, of a difference than does the performance boost of a Merlin 66 you're deluding yourself.

FWIW, I fly the Spit (IX or XIV) with two 20mm and four .303s. I have used the two 20mm and two .50 cal package, but noticed no significant change in firepower. I never managed to kill anything with the two .50s, but I have killed a Typhoon with the four .303s.

Nashwan · « **Reply #57 on:** August 17, 2002, 04:27:15 AM »

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If you think two .50s instead of four .303s makes as much, or more, of a difference than does the performance boost of a Merlin 66 you're deluding yourself.

Exactly. If your plane is armed with 2 Hispanos, would anyone be dumb enough to give up 20mph and 1000ft/min climb to add a couple of 50 cals?

Vermillion · « **Reply #58 on:** August 17, 2002, 09:04:17 AM »

I never said anything about giving up performance for a set of .50's. Thats your own words, not mine thank you.

I said that the x2 .50's equates to more effective firepower than the x4 .303's, which I can and will prove it you wish to go there.

And I stated from the start that the Spit IX in AH is a "hybrid". But don't deny the fact that .50's were not added to the Spit till 1944. A simple fact. And I stated the simple fact that the Spit IX was the most common Spitfire in use from 1944 to the end of the war, which makes it the most representative Spitfire of the period, not the Spit XIV. Again a simple fact.

Don't complain at me about which engine the IX has, complain to Pyro, he's the only one that can change it. Its a whole different issue than the XIV and its perkiness

What I'm against is this constant tired whine to either unperk the Spit XIV or take away its perk tag. Its a great plane and deserve both.

hazed- · « **Reply #59 on:** August 17, 2002, 09:33:09 AM »

why do people insist spitfire XIV was not the contempary of the p51D and dora ????

spit14 first unit to receive them was 610th squadron in JANUARY 1944

p51d was introduced in "early 1944"(cant find specific date??)

FW190D9 was introduced in SEPTEMBER 1944 with JG54

how are these not contemporaries? yes the enemy were more likely to meet a spit 9 than a spit 14 but thats not the point in MA is it? you can meet la7s in p51s or me262s in a 202!!. what the hell has the war got to do with those matchups?

seems to me people use statements like 'the most common type' when it suits them.

the simple fact of the matter is if you want to fly a 1944 LW plane you have the dora or the 109g10 for free
if you want to fly USAAF 1944 planes you have the P51d or F4Ud or P47d30(?) for free
if you want to fly best Russian plane theres an LA7 free
if you want to fly the best RAF fighter in 1944 tough luck it will cost you at least 60 perks.

The way i see it if the SPIT14 is so good then it SHOULD be a ride of choice not penalised for it.

Like you said vermillion and others if you 'fly it like a P51d or dora' you will have success in it. If you try to use it like the spit9 you will die pretty quick.so whats the differnce between it and doras/p51d's.