Now that we've got an HA, GERMANS NEED A HEAVY BOMBER!!!!

[Staga]

Kieran just start a topic where you want those planes added and I'll support you.

Of course I could find several reasons, more or less stupid, why those planes shouldn't be in AH but I can't see why should anyone act like that if plane/vehicle was in operative use in WW2.

[Kieran]

Believe it or not, I am staying on your topic. Don't tell me to start a new thread, you do want to see this discussed, right?

I am not lobbying against the He177. I am not lobbying for it. I am comparing two threads that have occurred in the past few days.

More is better. I like everything. I like exotic birds, too. But the header states in effect that the He177 is a necessity because we have an HA, correct? Read one way that means the He177 is needed for the HA, read the other way it means the HA means a 177 in the MA doesn't matter.

In the first argument there are no historical records of significant contribution. In the second, there are too many other neglected nations that should demand more urgent attention. No matter how you slice it there are greater needs than that one particular plane.

I don't have a vendetta against the latest demand, I merely have a different view on the "need" for it.

[DingHao2]

Originally posted by Kieran:

You must admit though the argument for adding anything German or American at the moment is pretty weak.

On the German side you have the only two jets, one of the finest, high performing piston-engined fighters, one of the most versatile medium bombers of the war, the only tank of the game, a murderous anti-aircraft/assault weapon (with how many actually manufactured and deployed?), and various models of the two frontline fighters. Pity poor Germany.

LW doesn't have a heavy bomber.  All the piston engined fighters have their weaknesses: they aren't good turners.  Now, how many countries had operational jets?  Two.  And the Brits will probably get the meteor @ a later date (Which only intercepted v-1's in the last 18 months of the war--and u want them when they hardly saw action in a low-key role?  sounds like u RAF fans are very selective in the low action planes u want--only ones for ur side).  .I also want to see GV's of other nationalities added before the Germans get another.  But they lack a heavy bomber.  Let me also add: Every country currently needs more planes in certain areas (i will exclude GV's--thats an obvious area.  Brits need a medium/light bomber and a tank buster.  Russians need a heavy bomber, a medium/light bomber, and a jabo.  Americans need nothing in the way of planes.  Italians and Japanese need a heavy bomber, a medium/light bomber, a tank buster, and a jabo.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.  And the Germans need a heavy bomber.

There. (i'd like to see a german heavy bomber before japanese or italian since it'll see more use) Now, 'nuff said.

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: Ding_Hao ]

[Karnak]

But would it see more use than an Me410A, Me410B, Mosquito FB.VI, Ki84 Ib or Tu-2?

I think the Brits have their ground attack plane, the Typhoon andd the Russians have a Jabo in the Il-2. The Russians didn't really have a proper heavy bomber in WWII and neither, truth be told, did the Japanese.

FWIW, it seems the Russians will be getting their best bomber, the Tu-2, soon, probably in 1.08.  The Tu-2 should be competative with the B-17.

[Kieran]

There. (i'd like to see a german heavy bomber before japanese or italian since it'll see more use) Now, 'nuff said.

Really think so? What do you base that observation on?  

"I want an He177!"- see how easy that is to say? I can't disagree with that, either, because you know what you want.

"Germans need a heavy bomber!"- yes they did. They just didn't have any that were reliable, deployed, and in large numbers in any area. The Allies needed a 400mph+ jet bomber, too, but didn't get it 'til after the war. See, I can argue against this.

BTW, are we arguing history or gameplay? I can never tell for sure when one of these debates start...

[DingHao2]

Originally posted by Kieran:
But the header states in effect that the He177 is a necessity because we have an HA, correct? Read one way that means the He177 is needed for the HA, read the other way it means the HA means a 177 in the MA doesn't matter.

Sure an He-177 in the MA matters.  There's buff pilots out there who would much rather fly this bird than a b-17 or Lancaster.

[DingHao2]

Gameplay or history?  Both.  The HA needs to give both nationalities an equal opportunity to win.  History?  Don't forget that mini-blitz in '44.  There were plenty of these Heinkel birds there.

[Staga]

Kieran simple question:
Are you for or against getting He-177 in ah's planeset ?

If your opinion is it could be nice to have then say so.
If your against tell me the reason why you're against it.

Anyway fact is it was a "Real Thing" which was in use since 42/43; Just like other planes in AH were. Thought most used planes in AH came in active use AFTER He-177.

[Westy MOL]

Staga, the HE-177 would be a fine addition to the plane set. I'm more particular to the JU-290 but I forget it's bomb load.

 Your statement that this is not WW2 but where we combat using WW2 aircraft is 100% right on.

 People tend to forget that is what these online games are about. Even WW2O comes no where towards replicating or simulating WWII.

 Westy

[Kieran]

Gameplay or history? Both. The HA needs to give both nationalities an equal opportunity to win. History? Don't forget that mini-blitz in '44. There were plenty of these Heinkel birds there.

Define "plenty". According to Green, "Warplanes of the Third Reich", page 345, second column, final paragraph:

 

For operation Steinbock, the so-called "Little Blitz" which was to mark the debut of the He177 over the British Isles, 1./KG 40 and 3./KG 100 came under Fliegerkorps IX and were co-ordinated as a single unit. Operation Steinbock had been conceived on the direct orders of Adolf Hitler as a reprisal against London, the OKL being forced to comb every operational unit in Italy and Russia for bombers to participate, some 550 aircraft eventually being gathered together, of which 35 were the He177s from KG 40 and KG 100.  

Staga-

I am for everything; my list is just prioritized.  

[DingHao2]

Tell what u just said to HTC, kieren.  Just look @ the 152!

[minus]

beging for V1 flying bomb  again !

before i thinked some  camion convoy with mobile ramp or what  but the  bomber ported v1 will be maybe beter

it match up more precisely history and alied have oportunity use typhon, tempest to intercept them the guidage of  V1 flying bomb can be made on the way how we use now the CV group range finder , make the range around 50 miles and minimal largage alt 5 k

V1 vas real danger for britain and it proved  the efectivnes

perhaps V 2 like perk ?  

[Kieran]

Ya know Minus, you could be on to something there...

Suppose you accepted V1's and V2's for the sake of argument. How do you implement them in a way that is fair and doesn't upset balance? Tie them to resources, except in reverse.

You assume that rocket research is being conducted on all sides. Left unmolested the research labs will successfully develop these types of weapons. It is therefore imperative to strike these facilities, else they rain V1's and V2's on your resources (with the same relative accuracy of their historic counterparts).

In the case of the V1 it would be possible to catch them, if difficult. In the case of the V2... well, better not let that get started.  

[minus]

gameplay balance ! well you right
that why is preferable to have bomber like  launch porters  thta mean  player need  to take off a buff with  1 V 1 loadet cruise in range    and get the 5 k altitude

 every 1 know how we use the  Range finder on  CV groups when u in range  you can zoom on map you click and you got range and direction of the  target

so same thing for the V1  and on plus you can aim at this way  fields but  it will be realy hard to aim anithing more  precisely
becose after droping the V 1  no more corection aviable

the precision   what we get this way  is it jsut same like a CV  sheling a field from 36 K distance

but will be preferable to give a V 1 biger blast radius  to incrase hit probability on targeted field
is it more close to historical realizm like the actula laser norden drop on clasic bufs

[Staga]

I would rather have He-177 with Fritz-X or Hs293