Mac version in the Future?

[Bronco]

Will there be an Open GL or equivalent 3D version coded for Macintosh platform in the near future?.......PLEASE!!!!



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Bronco

[Pyro]

There are currently no plans for a Mac version.  I won't close the door on the possibility, WB went a good while before they had one.  But at this stage, we just cannot justify the costs of doing that.  What happens if and when we get out of the woods is something we'll have to analyze at that time.

Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations  

[Yak]

Oh well.  

Then I guess I'll just have to hope it will suck, or we'll all stuck in the WBs arenas while our pc brethren are having fun over here.  Crapola.  


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Yak
Pale Horses

[Aanvil]

Aanvil and all his MacPilot commrades wave their high-limit credit cards over head trying to get Pyros attention. ;-)

[==au==]

Just a data point:

My squad, 4th Fighter Group, is not interested in moving to a new game that can't support the Macintosh members of the squad.  As long as reasonable-quality alternatives exist, the squad will stay with products that allow us to stay together.

Most of the squads in WB have a number of Mac members, and I'd suspect that many of them feel the same way - they won't switch unless nothing else of decent quality exists.

So, just something for Pyro and Dale to consider.  

Wade
==au==

[--nova]

Why would you do this?  With popularity of the iMac, and now the iBook it seems like a poor decision.  To say Warbirds was PC only before they made a Mac version, what about Air Warrior?  I played the MAc version in 1989 when PC's still used DOS!
   Apple should not be left out.  The company is one of the best INOVATORS in PC technology.  With a bit more support like Aces High there would be more reason for Apple to support game programmers.
   Just my thoughts.  No, I will not invest in MS Windows to play your game.

[-ik-]

very true au. I can't picture JG77 leaving Warbirds for any sim that doesn't offer mac support. Just can't take AH seriously when half the squad is on a mac!

[Dnil]

HeHe..good leaves more room for us.  Does Mac still make up like 10% of the market?  Dont know just wondering, but I can see Pyros point.

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Dnil
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer

[Fatbat]

I don't understand how game developers can't see the Mac as viable market. There were over a million iMacs sold at least half a year ago so I would think it would be more like 2 million by now. Not to mention all the blue towers. All of which have modems, usb and a good number of 3D accelerators, just ripe for online gaming. A veritable gold mine to the company that can target that untapped audience and introduce them to the online world. The mere fact that there aren't many quality games for the Mac means that the ones that do come along are that much more sucessful. Take Bungie for example and the Myth series (hybrid discs are where it's at), or Blizzard and Starcraft. Well I could go on and on about this. I hope that Pyro and company see the need. I can't see how this wouldn't be a good thing for them to do. Although we haven't spoken about it yet, I would hope that my squad, the Pale Riders, stands by the Mac guys and plays in the game that supports us. Justify the expense guys.

Oh yeah, please don't start up a Mac vs PC flame war. Keep your stupid coments like "Macs suck" to yourselves. This isn't about that.

Fatbat
the Pale Riders

[This message has been edited by Fatbat (edited 07-23-1999).]

[-morc-]

Well,  let's see...

2 million Mac's sold last year...

50 million PC's sold last year...

20 Amigas sold to unsuspecting individual(s)?

C'mon guys,  they have a point ya know.

The Mac guys in my squad are looking to buy PC's now,  I guess they're fed up with the crap.

Morc.  (Just thinking,  ya know)

[JDD]

  But -morc-, the relevant numbers are how many hard-core flight sim people there are on Macs, and I think that has to be a higher percentage than the worldwide sales figures show --- most of those PC's are in some kind of business environment. Sure, the Mac market for AH is smaller than the PC market, but there's also no competition for those Mac players. If AH invests in the Mac, they'll get us all and likely keep us --- right now I have *no* online flight sim I can play (for more than 63 seconds, anyway...).

  So --- Good luck HiTech Creations! There are a lot of us Mac guys waiting for the chance to sign up and help you profit from your investment in the Apple platform --- hope it happens sooner rather than later!

-jdd--

[foggia]

Stats I've seen (but cannot reference, sorry!) say that the percentage of MacIntosh computers used in business applications is far larger than the percentage of PCs similarly used.  This tends to support HiTech's decision, for now.  The fact is that the PC gaming marketplace is much larger.  Just check out the games section in any computer store....

The really interesting stats would be on what percentage of Mac users fly online versus the percentage of PC users that fly online.  That's where the real numbers would be.

BTW, I'm a PC user and I respect very much the attitudes of those squadrons having both Mac users and PC users.  It is a terrible dilemma for all.

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foggia
XO
457th Bomb Group


[This message has been edited by foggia (edited 07-23-1999).]

[Pyro]

Not producing a Mac version is not just a simple choice dictated by personal whim.  It's not because we feel there's no Mac market.  But there is a big difference between what is feasible and what is feasible for us at this time.

HTC's philosphy is to do this one thing without any distractions. To accomplish that, we need to keep our start-up costs down and our overhead low.  This is a no-frills operation.  The pitfall a lot of developers fall into is that they have to seek out a lot of money from a publisher or venture capitalist to finance their project so they can "do what they want."  The problem is that once they do that, they're no longer doing what they want, but what is dictated to them by their financiers.  Suddenly they find that their project has become the goose that laid the golden eggs with someone else merciless hacking away at it because its not laying eggs fast enough to satisfy them.  No thanks.  If we have to sell ourselves off to succeed, we will have failed.

We aren't shutting ourselves out of a market.  AH is written to be platform independent.  Changing from D3D to OpenGL is not a huge conversion.  But the simple truth is that it's not something we can do right now.  At the point that it is an option to us, we'll look at the market and go from there.  I wish I could tell you what you want to hear, but I can't.  


Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[-cman-]

On 7/23/99, Pyro wrote:
"Changing from D3D to OpenGL is not a huge conversion. But the simple truth is that it's not something we can do right now. At the point that it is an option to us, we'll look at the market and go from there. I wish I could tell you what you want to hear, but I can't. "

Interestiang that you guys are not going OpenGL from the start.  Is it because you all are used to the D3D environment or are there solid reasons for using one over the other.  From what I had heard, OpenGL is easier to develop for and inherently faster.  But I don't actually program the stuff, so I'm relying on trusted opinions.

As I said before, even though I am a rabid Mac devotee, I just don't see an upside to trying to develop for both Pre-OS X.  The Mac OS still isn't flexible and stable enough in the multi-threading department.  Even more so if you guys are developing for D3D, although I hear that hardware is starting to come for the Mac market.

You guys have to go where the business plan and the bank account take you.  Now, if you want to license the Mac coding out to someone...  let's talk.

Cheers,

P.S. Pyro, get some sleep dude.  Up until midnight on a Friday and back at it at 7:30 AM on Saturday.  There is a long way to go my man.  

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-cman-
The Dweebs of Death
"Death before dishonor,
often just moments
before

[Spof]

OK, PC guy with a question here. Is it really that more of an expense to code a Mac version of xxx game? In particular I'm speaking of Aces High.

I'm not a programmer or a project manager but what else is involved besides paying a Mac programmer to code and providing him with a Mac to code on? It's got to be cheaper to do it from the start rather than figure out how to do a hack port that's always a rev behind the PC version and then telling your Mac customers you're not pissing on their legs, it's just raining ...

Seriously. I'm not a Mac user and don't ever intend to be (not nasty, just don't want to learn another OS/platform) but the boxes do seem to be flying off the shelf and they're getting support from big names in gaming like Carmack and Romero.

Nobody in flight sims gives the Mac platform even ground to stand on and I find that real confusing. I know that HTC, KillerCo, WB, AW, FA ... all the big multiplayer online sims love doing WW2 sims. But they're also companies whose bottom line is to make money. There's only so much market saturation WW2 sims can support. Why on earth would you just cede profits to whoever smells the fresh brewed coffee first and puts Mac pilots on even ground with their PC compadres?

I'd love to hear opinions from folks that are coding not just flying.

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Chris -Spof- Singleton
  spof@dogfighter.com  
Spof's News @ Dogfighter
 www.dogfighter.com