Give me

[easymo]

I was referring to his ability to bring folks together and get things accomplished

 Jr. is fond of looking steely eyed, into the camera and saying "I am results oriented. That what I care about".  Apparently this is a phrase that someone made him memorize. I am results oriented also. Two thirds of the al-kaida cadre excaped Afghanistan. Due IMO, to the long warning period that Jr. gave them. He is doing the same thing now with Iraq. Them results suck, Jr.

[Shuckins]

Easymo,

Would you have preferred that the U.S. jumped into Afghanistan without being fully prepared or having a base of operations, like Pakistan, from which to strike?

Ashcroft is between a rock and a hard place.  If he doesn't use every means at his disposal to thwart future terrorist attacks, and Al-Qaeda manages to successfully strike us again, his career as a public servant will be over.  If he uses questionable means to thwart these attacks and is successful in doing so, some American citizens will demand his resignation for abusing the powers of his office.

Why should a suspected terrorist or his lawyer/spokesman have free access to the press?  If they had it, they would use it to preen and boast and, possibly, send information about his interrogators and their methods to his compatriots.  The Constitution does not guarantee him unlimited access to the media, only a fair and speedy trial by a jury.

Regards, Shuckins

[10Bears]

If clinton had tried this, I and a lot of other conservatives would have went ballistic
[/b]

Your my hero Easymo!

Bush has been pretty much what I expected. I didn't expect much.
[/b]

The era of lowered expectations Toad.

they're all crooks/liars/cheats/hypocrites

Not true Wlfgng but this is the spin the Global Corporations want you to believe. So why bother to vote?

If it were only as easy as some of you make it out to be.

A little easier Rude if we had picked someone smarter.. like say John McCain. Or even the guy that won the election.

It is what it is and it will never change. Having said that, I choose to stand behind my president until he does something I can no longer respect.

Like what start ww3? Oh that’s right that would be Clinton’s fault.. Rude you would support this president if he personally pulled out a shotgun an blew somebody's head off.    

I was referring to his ability to bring folks together and get things accomplished....I too lived in Texas when GW was the gov.[/b]

“Ahm ah uniter not a divider” ... Well ain’t that the truth.. He’s  united the world against us.  
“Ahm gonna change the direction of this country!” Boy o’ boy! no lie there.

In response to your remark about owning a baseball team not jelling with being the president? I would rather have someone who has practical experience in the business world running this country than a lifelong politician

I to would like somebody with PRACTICAL business experience.. not a complete business failure.. The only reason he’s not a porn movie fluffer is because of his family name. Was it really necessary to condemn the private property the stadium sits on then charge the good people of Arlington EXTRA TAX for the privilege only to have him sell the team a few months later?.. That’s swell Dubya thanks alot.

PS- please note my non presents on that other thread..

[Toad]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Or even the guy that won the election.

We've GOT the guy that won the election sitting in the White House now.

.... and before you start in with all the excuse making, "unfair-unfair" and coulda/shoulda/woulda....

Ask yourself this and be honest.......

If the election situation was EXACTLY reversed and all the things that happened to Bush happend to Gore and all the things that happened to Gore happened to Bush and Gore was now the President.......

I can honestly say were it reversed and Gore was sitting in the White House my postion would be the same on the events... I'd say Gore won, just as I say Bush won now.

Would you still be saying BUSH won the election if it all were reversed?

I'm thinking you would not.

Well?

[mietla]

A little easier Rude if we had picked someone smarter.. like say John McCain.

Didn't the dems re-registered to Rep for the primaries just to defeat McCain in a Republican primaries, because thay thought the Goron can take Bush, but not necessarily McCain?

[Hangtime]

The scurvy lil monkey is gay.

Next time I'm voting for these guys...

[easymo]

"If he doesn't use every means at his disposal to thwart future terrorist attacks"

 That means every means at HIS disposal.  NOT the bill of rights.  That,s not his to dispose of. That's ours

[10Bears]

If the election situation was EXACTLY reversed and all the things that happened to Bush happend to Gore and all the things that happened to Gore happened to Bush and Gore was now the President.......[/b]

You mean if Bush had won by over 500,000 votes but the partisan left wing Supreme court called a stop to counting all the votes,  the left leaning military were allowed to send in votes postmarked after the election, conservatives in the suburbs found their names mystery taken off the voter list, ballots with Bush as the fifth candidate but you have to look closely he’s really the third candidate?... hehehh

Toad.... like another poster told you.. there’d be armed insurrection.

Didn't the dems re-registered to Rep for the primaries just to defeat McCain in a Republican primaries, because thay thought the Goron can take Bush, but not necessarily McCain?[/b]

Mietla, got any documentation? I remember this. It’s brought to by the same people that claimed McCain was mentally unstable. The large corporations don’t like.. didn’t like John McCain because he don’t dance to their fiddle.. You know this right? He was gaining too much in the polls so they brought out the BIG slime machine and let it spew. During the South Carolina primary they even started making subtle suggestions regarding his step daughter. Now even you have to admit that was pretty low.

Here’s something for Toad to chew on. Had Gore been allowed to serve as President, there’s a good chance he would have followed the advice of Clinton and quietly gone after Bin Ladin using special forces. He would have accepted the Hart/Rudman report and their recommendations. He would’ve continued the Clinton economic policies that proved to have worked for 8 years. The result?.. No 911 no recession. No ripping off the firefighters who need new equipment, no ripping off veterans for their VA health benefits. It’s a good chance that older Americans who earned it would be receiving a subsidized prescription drug benefit. And the most important thing of all.. He wouldn’t be ripping to shreds our Constitution and Bill of Rights!

Hey Toad try and make it into the CT this week their doing Burma it’s fun...
Oh here’s a Babe that Yankee would approve of
http://www.brookeburke.com/

[Toad]

Yet another admirable exhibition of the "side-step" 10B. Those are some truly nimble feet you have there.

Item 1. As I recall, you support the Second Amendment in another thread and in this last reply you pay homage to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Allow me to digress a moment and point out the origins of the Electoral College.

The first design of the Electoral College was described in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.

To prevent tie votes in the Electoral College which were made
probable, if not inevitable, by the rise of political parties (and no doubt to facilitate the election of a president and vice president of the same party), the 12th Amendment to the Constitution requires that each Elector cast one vote for president and a separate vote for vice president rather than casting two votes for president with the runner-up being made vice president.

Since the 12th Amendment, there have been several federal and State statutory changes which have affected both the time and manner of choosing Presidential Electors but which have not further altered the fundamental workings of the Electoral College.

So, we can see that the Electoral College and how it works is created by and delineated in the Constitution.

So, 10B, how is it? You either support the Constitution or you don't. Clearly, the Electoral College system is part of the Constitution.

Just as clearly, Gore won the popular vote by a thin margin... you might even say well within the margin of error given the ballot problems that appear to be endemic throughout the entire system.

Even more clear, however, is the fact that Constitutionally[/u] winning the popular vote has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH WINNING THE PRESIDENCY.

Winning the ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE determines who wins the Presidency.

And one does not necessarily have to win the popular vote to win the Electoral College vote. It's deliberately set up that way, in fact.

Constitutionally speaking, of course. I'm sure you agree? Being a staunch supporter of the Constitution?

Now that we've got that little bit of history out of the way, let's address the issue you once again clearly side-stepped:

Would you be saying that BUSH won the election if Gore was now in the White House, gaining it under the exact same circumstances that put Bush there now?

Show us the honesty of your belief; tell us that you'd be now be bitterly telling the world how "Bush got cheated" if Gore was President under the same circumstances.

Yeah, right.   In a pig's eye you would. You're only crying now because "your guy" didn't get in. You wouldn't care HOW he got there, just that he got there.

Lastly, here's something for you to chew on:

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

Want to what if your scenario?

What if Gore's "quiet special forces" had failed to get Bin Laden in time to stop 9/11?

What if Clinton was wrong and we really didn't defeat the business cycle?

What if the same crooked CEO's were running the same companies that have imploded due to accounting scandals and flat out lying and stealing during the Clinton Administration (and many of them were)?

What if all the crooked accounting and inflated profit reports, stock prices and wealth  were responsible for a lot of the "prosperity" during the Clinton years and thus it was all a chimera? What if the bill for all that lying, cheating, stealing and lack of ethics is just now coming due?

What if you could "what if" every single decision ever made and "what if" every happening in life?

I suspect you'd spend a lot of time "what-iffing" and not getting anything done.

That reminds me, I've got some real work to do!

So,  10B, would you be crying that somebody "stole the election" from Bush?  You Constitutionalist, you!  

[10Bears]

LOL Toad, I’ve got to admit, who ever taught you debating skills sure knew what they were doing I have to give you credit for that. We weren't talking about the electoral collage. You pick something that we fully agree on then move the discussion from there. That’s good.. I like that heheheh. Believe me I don’t need an education on the electoral collage, I understand the reasons for it fully and don’t have a problem with it.

What I DO have a problem with is the Supreme court stepping on the state Supreme court to have ALL the votes manually counted. I have a problem with thousands of voters who thought they were registered being turned away from the polls. Military votes turned in after election day, Giant corporations pouring in millions of dollars making sure the manual recount was stopped... on and on. But to stop your first paragraphs in it’s tracks.. those 23 electoral votes would’ve gone to Gore had all the legal votes been counted...

Would you be saying that BUSH won the election if Gore was now in the White House, gaining it under the exact same circumstances that put Bush there now?

Show us the honesty of your belief; tell us that you'd be now be bitterly telling the world how "Bush got cheated" if Gore was President under the same circumstances.[/b]

Your right.. your right I would’ve sat back eating popcorn and watched the circus on TV. I would’ve thanked God and lord sweet Jesus we didn’t get some frat boy inexperienced recovering alcoholic as our president. I would’ve scratched my head in utter amazement that wise men like Bob Dole and James Baker would support this guy in the first place. After all, it’s their country too.  BUT[/i] Rush and G. Gordie would have blasted the airwaves 24/7 Free Republic would have gotten so many posts it would slow the entire internet. Lucanne Goldberg might have had a stroke. Lil;’ Anne Fanny might have gotten a butch haircut. Militias would mobilize.. Mass riots by well heeled GOP staffers in the streets.. Are you kidding?

Sigh.. my side gone are the tough guys-- gone are the Tip O'Neal's, the Bill Fullbrights, the Gene McCarthy's of the country.. What we have now are the yes men.. oh yes anything you want Mr. Bush.. anything you want signed Mr Ashcroft. What a world..

[Toad]

I didn't change the topic one bit. We were talking about who won the election.

You keep posting incredible baloney like

Or even the guy that won the election.

[/b]

as if Gore won. Clearly, for the discussion to continue rationally, a mutual understanding of the Electoral College was necessary.

So, since you DON'T need an education on the Electoral College, does that mean you'll finally give up on the

Or even the guy that won the election.

[/b]

BS?

Because, since you understand the Electoral College and agree with it, you MUST realize that Gore LOST the election by the Constitutional rules that apply... the only rules that count.

So, are you ready to give up on it yet?  

Now, let me help you with one of  your other "problems":

What I DO have a problem with is the Supreme court stepping on the state Supreme court to have ALL the votes manually counted.

[/b]

Well, that IS the Supreme Courts job.. to decide in these cases. And they did. Now you may not agree with the decision and that's your privilege and opinion. But the case was brought, they agreed to hear it and that IS their job.. to decide.

So there you go. No need to have a problem because Bush would have won if the Supreme Court had allowed the recount to go ahead.  Now you can relax and love the Supremes again!


(From CNN) April 4, 2001
Web posted at: 11:26 a.m. EDT (1526 GMT)

"MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- If a recount of Florida's disputed votes in last year's close presidential election had been allowed to proceed by the U.S. Supreme Court, Republican George W. Bush still would have won the White House, two newspapers reported Wednesday.

The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month."


*******


And now to your biggest problem:

those 23 electoral votes would’ve gone to Gore had all the legal votes been counted...

[/b]

Sorry, you're simply wrong. And it's been deeply researched already. So, this is just more baloney.  


(From USA Today 05/15/2001 - Updated 05:18 PM ET )

The results reveal a stunning irony. The way Gore wanted the ballots recounted helped Bush, and the standard that Gore felt offered him the least hope may have given him an extremely narrow victory. The vote totals vary depending on the standard used:

Lenient standard. This standard, which was advocated by Gore, would count any alteration in a chad — the small perforated box that is punched to cast a vote — as evidence of a voter's intent. The alteration can range from a mere dimple, or indentation, in a chad to its removal. Contrary to Gore's hopes, the USA TODAY study reveals that this standard favors Bush and gives the Republican his biggest margin: 1,665 votes.


Palm Beach standard. Palm Beach County election officials considered dimples as votes only if dimples also were found in other races on the same ballot. They reasoned that a voter would demonstrate similar voting patterns on the ballot. This standard — attacked by Republicans as arbitrary — also gives Bush a win, by 884 votes, according to the USA TODAY review.


Two-corner standard. Most states with well-defined rules say that a chad with two or more corners removed is a legal vote. Under this standard, Bush wins by 363.


Strict standard. This "clean punch" standard would only count fully removed chads as legal votes. The USA TODAY study shows that Gore would have won Florida by 3 votes if this standard were applied to undervotes.
 
Because of the possibility of mistakes in the study, a three-vote margin is too small to conclude that Gore might have prevailed in an official count using this standard.

**********

So now you can relax some more. Because in 3 out of the 4 ways to count... INCLUDING THE METHOD FAVORED BY GORE... BUSH WON.

And in the other method it's basically too close to call by the admission of those doing the research.

I have a problem with thousands of voters who thought they were registered being turned away from the polls.

[/b]

At every polling place I've ever been too, my registration was checked against the book of registered voters. When ever there was a dispute, there were both Democrats and Republicans called in to verify the voter. As far as I know, this is the way Florida works too. So who do you have a problem with? The Democratic workers at the polling places?

And Military ballots can be turned in after election day, IIRC. They go by the postmark, do they not?


And, lastly...

Your right.. your right I would’ve sat back eating popcorn and watched the circus on TV. I would’ve thanked God and lord sweet Jesus

[/b]

So, if your man had gotten in by the same means as Bush, by the same means you have decried in numerous threads, by the same means that you continue to endlessly complain about as unfair/illegal...

You'd be perfectly satisfied and wouldn't say a word except perhaps to "thank God".

Hmmmmm...  sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

[lord dolf vader]

just cant wait for the next election.


and would like to point out i supported armed insurrection from the start.

[Toad]

In this case, I wouldn't have supported armed insurrection no matter who won.

The fact that it was decided in the courts and not in the streets is a very positive thing, IMO.

[Hangtime]

"a little revolution every now and again is a good thing..." --Thomas Jefferson

[Gadfly]

Easymo, I would like to buy you a beer.  Ride yer sickle up to God's Country(though it is a Liberal nest), here in Austin, and your money is no good.

512.431.0870