Author Topic: tempest vs la7 (Read 703 times)

teufl · « **on:** August 27, 2002, 04:23:23 PM »

I cant' t really believe it, a la7 ran down my tempest at low altitude, and I tried alot of manuevers to dislogde him. If a 70 perk plane can't out run a normal plane, then either the perked plane needs to be less perked or la7 needs to be perked. We had equal E and i believe both pilots had equal skill. .........T WIDOWMAKERS:(

fffreeze220 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2002, 04:35:36 PM »

bahh np teufl i am sure kyle nows that hes a La7 dweeb

Spatula · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2002, 04:50:53 PM »

I didnt think the tempest was much faster than a tiffie (which is damned fast) on the deck.
La7s are alot easier to deal with above 10k. Gettin on the deck with an la7 is a recipe for disaster IMO.

JB73 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:14:27 PM »

awhhhhh baby u want a sucker

did u woose sone perk pwoints?

LOLOLOLOL

<~~> Teufl JK bro~~

SirLoin · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:28:31 PM »

A Tempest will outrun,out turn(i think) and outclimb an LA7 with an equal E and Fuel state.

hazed- · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:32:48 PM »

you sure you didnt have drop tanks still on?

Charon · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:41:16 PM »

I just did a casual H2H Lan comparison with a friend (Rutger), Tempest vs LA7 and found the following.

At sea level the Tempest seemed faster in full military than the La7 in Wep. These were informal tests, but we made some effort to neutralize e such as: slow down until I start gaining then open up the throttle. When he opened the throttle he would quickly pull away, when he hit WEP it was dramatic.

I seemed to be able to outloop and out flat-turn the tempest. I had no problem pulling through to get a good lead deflection, repetedly, during the nose to tail circling and looping.

Charon

wulfie · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:48:44 PM »

I haven't had time to look up values/data/etc. but if memory serves the Tempest V, while having a top speed and HP advantage at all altitudes, will be outaccelerated by an La-7 on the deck (due to the La-7, while having less HP than the Tempest V, still having an engine that rates a great deal of HP and also being significantly lighter than the tempest).

The end result is this - if you are in a Tempest V, on the deck, and an La-7 dives on you with superior speed/'E state', you could be in alot of trouble. You have more wing area which = more drag so any maneuvers you conduct are going to burn more E than the La-7 would burn unless he 'over bit' trying to match your maneuvers and keep you in his front 60.

So basically unless he screws up and allows you some separation and time to build up speed (by 'blowing' a maneuver or two)...start screaming on the CSAR net.

Think about it this way - you probably have ~10 MPH of top speed over the La-7 on the deck if both of you are using WEP. But at the same time, you probably weigh ~3500 lb. or more than said La-7. If you get 'caught' on the deck you need to be able to not get shot for a long enough period of time for your top speed advantage to get you some separation. But because you are going to lose more E in any given maneuver, this is a very tough thing to do.

If a La-7 get wtihin gun range of a Tempest V at sea level, and the La-7 also has an 'E state advantage' (i.e. it's not catching the Tempest V at range 450 for 3 seconds at peak speed after a dive while the Tempest is cruising at the La-7s peak speed+10 MPH), the Tempest V is in deep weeds.

Mike/wulfie

Kweassa · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2002, 05:49:04 PM »

Kyle's pretty good in the La-7..but I met him in quite a few engagements, and shot him down a few times in a 1-vs-1 situation in the La-5FN. The only instance where he shot me down was when it was a vulch-situation(where he usually enters the scene). The rest cases I've been shot down were all from his N1K2s.

He's not as sharp in the La-7 as he is in the N1K2(and also, not as sharp when flying alone, without the usual cronies he brings along. In fact, his La-7 is pretty much basic - disciplined, but nothing extraordinary. The only exceptional thing I notice is the knack for long-range shots, hitting 600~700 yards with even the ShVAKs(or maybe Beresins). You think you gained enough range to extend and then wham, pow, a burst of 20mms and you are damaged or downed.

Therefore, I'm pretty sure you missed something - maybe he had an initial E advantage you didn't notice, or maybe you misjudged something. Whatever it was, it was probably something you didn't catch. My bet is on in truth, he came down on you with some sort of E advantage.

So, I bet it went like this; you decide to extend away, he targets you with an E-advabtage you didn't realize. He catches up with you briefly before you reach full speed on WEP(by this time, you two are probably down at deck and with only each other).

Then, he probably bursts a stream of long-range shot which a few pings land on you, and in disbelief, you decide to jink. That small jink was enough E-loss and he probably got to catch up with you. You try a few maneuvers, each time trying to get a situation where you can out accelerate him.. and every time when you seem to be gaining distance he'll do a pretty accurate spray, and you have to turn again.

It's a pretty typical behavior in notorious N1K2 drivers. They shove 20mms up your arse at ranges you can't believe, whether you are jinking or not.

Spatula · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2002, 06:18:17 PM »

Check out the charts.

The tempest should be faster if both planes are either both on or off WEP simultaneously. If the Temp is off WEP and the La7 is on it, it will catch the tempest.

Mitsu · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2002, 06:52:06 PM »

Spa,

Use this...Joechen's stuff is awesome.

http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm

SirLoin · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2002, 07:19:04 PM »

Thnx for the link Mitsu.That is truely excellant charts!

Joechen!

Innominate · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2002, 07:44:04 PM »

--edited--thinking of something else.

These are soviet built machines, and any test results are sure to be padded.

Really though when it comes down to it, the la7 can run from anything. You can hop into an la7 during a major attack on one of your bases, goon hunt all day, and land when you run out of ammo. As long as you can get up to speed, you're pretty much safe. If the la7's speed is correct, there is no way that thing deserves to be unperked.

And no "Well it's worthless above 10k", is not a valid argument for it's remaining unperked. 90% of fights occur under 10 thousand feet, making low level performance the most important aspect of any plane. An la7 getting caught at a high alt with a disadvantage can easily drop down to low levels where he has the edge.

Urchin · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2002, 08:11:59 PM »

Why would the Soviet results be padded any more than the American, British, German, or Japanese ones?

The La7 is one of a few units that is in the game to allow newbies to compete and feel good about themselves. If you perked it, you'd probably end up with less newbies in the game, which would be bad for HTC financially. Fortunately for everyone, most people who fly the La7 couldnt find their bellybutton with both hands, so you can kill em in whatever your favorite ride happens to be. Get a good pilot in the La7 and he will be unstoppable.

Innominate · « **Reply #14 on:** August 27, 2002, 09:10:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Why would the Soviet results be padded any more than the American, British, German, or Japanese ones?

Fortunately for everyone, most people who fly the La7 couldnt find their bellybutton with both hands, so you can kill em in whatever your favorite ride happens to be. Get a good pilot in the La7 and he will be unstoppable.

The soviets are famous for never admitting faults, even when they are so old that said faults have become moot.

As for your comment on newbies flying the la7, this argument also applies to the spit14, f4u4, tempest, 262, etc. Just because it's flown by newbies doesn't mean it's needed. And just because a plane is easy to kill BECAUSE it's mostly flown by newbies, means little. The average pilot you meet in it doesn't matter. It's what happens when you get a pilot who knows how to fly it. If the average pilot skill in each plane mattered, we wouldn't need the perk planes to be perked.

Dweeb planes aren't needed for newbies. Despite what many seem to think, giving a newbie a perk-performing plane isnt a big help. There will always be good newbie planes just like there will always be a "Fastest unperked" plane. Planes such as the spit9, n1k2, etc make excellent newbie planes, and do not warrent being perked. ANY plane which out-performs so many planes like that deserves to be perked. If newbies use it because they can get kills, vets will use it because it makes them invulnerable.

The la7 perked, would have to be cheap, 10 perks or so. Cheap enough that even newbies could afford to use it.

Okay, Now before someone jumps in with "Well if you perk the la7, something else will become the fastest free plane" let me respond. First off, the la7's high top speed is only important because of it's unbelievably accelleration. It's able to maneuver, and be back up to 380mph very quickly. And second, once you get rid of the la7, the speed gaps between everything become quite a bit smaller. There is no other plane able to accellerate away from a fight like that.