Author Topic: Revisiting the F4U-4 perk cost debate (Read 1296 times)

Frost · « **on:** August 27, 2002, 10:35:04 PM »

I decided to take a look at some comparative aircraft using the utility on this page:
http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm

I used what I think are the four non-perked aircraft that are closest in airspeed and climb rate to the -4.

Bf109-G10
La-7
P51-D
FW190-D-9

Speed: At sea-level only the La-7 beats the -4. From 1k to 8k all of these planes are faster than the -4. From 8k to 14k the P51, D-9 and G-10 are faster than the -4. From about 15.5k and up, only the G-10 is faster than the -4.

Climb: From sea-level to 8k the G-10, D-9 and La-7 climb faster than the -4. From 8k to 15.5k the G-10 and the D-9 climb faster than the -4. Above 15.5k only the G-10 climbs better than the -4.

Turn rate: My opinion here will probably be disputed. Below 10k I think the -4 outturns all the planes except the La-7. Above 10k it will probably outturn all of them using flaps.

Acceleration: Again my opinion here. No tests to back it up. Up to 10k I think that the G-10, D-9 and the La-7 will out-accelerate the -4. Above 10k the G-10 and the D-9 will probably out-accelerate the -4.

Conclusion: In my opinion ammo load versus weapon calibers even out the firepower on these planes so I did not use this as a major factor. Below 15k three planes are faster and two outclimb it. Above 15k only the G-10 is faster and outclimbs it. The -4 holds the advantage in turn rate but not in roll rate. Three planes probably out-accelerate it below 10k and two above 10k.

Below 15k (which is where most of the fighting takes place) the -4 does not hold a decided advantage over any of these non-perked planes. Above 15k it starts to shine but is still outclassed by the G-10.

If the -4 is perked because of performance then, in my opinion, there is a strong argument to unperk it. When compared to the other non-perked planes I don't believe it would be unbalancing to un-perk it or at the very least, substantially lower the cost.

There are many others that know much more about the perfomance of these planes than I do, so please feel free to point out any glaring mistakes.

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2002, 01:20:55 AM »

Based on the aircraft that are not perked, I think you are correct.

You should also test it against the Typhoon.

Frost · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2002, 01:23:08 AM »

I ruled out the Typhoon because of it's slow climb rate, slow role rate and mediocre acceleration. I thought the others were a closer comparison.

brady · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2002, 01:37:24 AM »

It may be perked simply because of rarity, and is is a high preformance plane, althought NOT the best by any means.

I am not shure how many units used this bird in combat, can sombody clue me in please.

MAC · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2002, 08:03:59 PM »

The experimental XF4U-4 was developed in Mid 1944 and the F4U-4 came to the front lines in early 1945. I dont have exact figures here with me, but the production of these beautiful birds was probably about 200 per month between all the manufacturers. I'm sure I'll be corrected on the production numbers if I'm terribly incorrect =) And I thank you.

MAC · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2002, 08:08:46 PM »

Oh yeah....I Agree BTW. UNPERK or Reduce the Perks on F4u-4. Perk planes when they become a general neausance, not just because they are great planes.

If it's to regulate the number in the arenas, then by all means you HAVE to perk La7's, Nikki's, Spit V and IX, 109's, and Typhies. Thats all I ever see out there.

The F4U-4 is a great plane, dont get me wrong. But the 6 .50 cals are definitely no cannons.

When AH brings the F4U-4C....then perk it. =)

Innominate · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2002, 08:40:33 PM »

The price is fine.
Change it's tags to F4U and the need to run from the gangbang squads goes away.

The P51D seems to be the top-of-the-line free plane, and anything better is perked. The F4U4 is essentially a carrier based p51d, and is a slightly better plane overall. With gangbang tags, it stands little chance in the MA environment. The F4U-1 is a much more effective aircraft currently. This is also why the f4u-1C is the best perk plane by far, it lacks the gangbang tags.

whgates3 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2002, 02:26:00 AM »

one might suggest that anyone earns enough perks enough to fly about in those fancy A/C should be able to defend one's self, especially in a superior bird...unless you're buying w/ stolen or counterfeit perks...j'accuse!

MAC · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2002, 08:05:02 AM »

Not gonna touch this one.......

Anyone else?

PUNT

Frost · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2002, 09:30:12 AM »

whgates3...the point of this thread is that the F4U-4 is not a "superior" bird. There are a number of non-perked rides that are superior to the -4 under 15k where most of the fights are. Above 15k it does better for itself but there are still a couple of the non-perked rides that are better than the -4 from 0k to 30k. Unless it is perked for rarity then this bird should either be unperked or the perk cost substantially lowered.

If this plane were unperked in the MA you would see a big increase in usage for a while because people would want to fly a previously perked plane for free. But since it would be the 4th fastest non-perked plane below 15k and it isn't even close a turn-and-burn plane, people would gravitate back to La-7s, spits and N1kIs.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2002, 10:26:47 AM »

There has always been some concern that the Hog-4 would be overused if it became unperked. I disagree, and the folks would in fact try it for a while, but the only people who would benefit from it are the ones that enjoy flying Corsairs in the first place.

Regarding the Icon marking, I disagree with the statement made regarding "should be able to remain alive" while in thi Hog-4. Once people see a perked ride in the area, theres a real desire to try to corral it at the earliest opportunity. Sure, the Corsair can get you home, but who doesn't try to kill a perked ride rather than dancing with some low value? I don't think it should be perked at 50, but it definitely needs to have the icon marker changed. It would make the game more interesting, and guys will have to get a good visual on the con to determine its version.

And yes, I believe the F4U-4B, and 4C both saw WW2 Combat..I may be wrong...I hope I'm not

Gainsie

MAC · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:04:37 AM »

AMEN! Red Tail 444 and Frost!

Most who would fly the HOG-4 if lowered in perks or if the perk icon was removed would be those who fly Corsairs anyways. Yes, there would be a quick spike in usage, but most will realize that it still takes skill to handle the bird well and will quickly go back to their Spits, La7's and favorite HO planes. Since its release, I have only seen 4 F4U-4's out there and have personally only flown 3 or 4.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:23:30 AM »

UNPERK ME!!:mad:

MAC · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:56:31 AM »

MAC · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:58:59 AM »