Author Topic: Revisiting the F4U-4 perk cost debate (Read 1280 times)

-ammo- · « **Reply #45 on:** September 18, 2002, 10:35:11 PM »

I did some number crunching. The PDF file (bureau of aeronautics of the Navy) have the f4u-4 speed stats in knots.

I converted thee numbers for the test with the AC combat laden with 1 150 gallon drop tank. That makes it even more impressive. Yep..these numbers are for a combat ready, external fuel carrying, f4u-4.

at 20,500 ft-- 452 MPH

at sea level-- 374 MPH

at 15,000 ft-- 435 MPH

max climbrate @ sea level- 4770 fpm

time to climb to 20K-- 4.9 minutes

Sounds like our F4U-4 may not be right. Unless, we have a diff AC than the one described in those Dep of Navy charts.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #46 on:** September 18, 2002, 11:08:55 PM »

Ammo,

It's a bad news, good news, bad news kind of a thing.

1. Bad news. The chart you have is for 130 octane fuel.

2. Good news. I have another set of charts which is still much better than what we have with 100 octance fuel.

Here is page one.

Here is page two.

3. Bad news. I have sent this data to Pyro/HT and they are less than motivated to do anything about it. This is from the QA section of the message boards. QA#2

Quote

We use the best resources available to us at the time. Some planes are very rich in available data while others are very sparse. If new data becomes available to us after the fact, then it?s a matter of finding time to research it and make a change to the model if needed. The F4U-4 would fall into that latter category. On planes with multiple variants, discrepancies in the reports must be accounted for in our models. We can?t just look at the performance data, we also have to look at the actual physical changes made and verify that the performance changes are relative to the physical changes.

4. Good news. I still have another chart for the F4U-4 with even better numbers with 100 octane fuel. I have yet to scan or post it anywhere. Will do it tommorrow in a new post.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #47 on:** September 18, 2002, 11:22:22 PM »

Ammo/Wilbus,

Haven't you guys seen my web page. I have all of the allied charts posted inside of a huge PDF from Vought. Also Ammo I got that P-51 vs F4U report from "Dizz" Dean Author of AHT about three years ago along with some other stuff. He passed away recently but he lived very close to me.

In and case look at this chart. Check out the 400MPH top speed of the F2G at sea level and the 5,000Ft per minute climb rate

whgates3 · « **Reply #48 on:** September 19, 2002, 01:37:59 AM »

not directly related to the topic, but i just got the Oct '02 copy of Aeroplane Monthly & it has 3 pix of korean war era F4U-4s w/ 2 bomb racks on each wing, on the inboard edge of the outter wing section. 0ne pic of the 3 shows rocket rails as well, outboard of the bomb racks, with the bird carrying one ~250 lbs & one ~500lbs bomb on each wing & 2 drop tanks on the normal inner wing section points...anyone know if the WWII version of the F4U-4 could carry more than 2 bombs?

Bombjack · « **Reply #49 on:** September 19, 2002, 03:39:20 AM »

I like that chart F4UDOA, only the USN would think to compare the F2G with a P51B. Classic stuff.

Wilbus · « **Reply #50 on:** September 19, 2002, 04:53:16 AM »

CC Ammo, noticed it was in knots aswell, fast bird that's for sure

F4uDOA, thanks for the charts, will save em all that's for sure

Something bothers me though...

Quote

The F4U-4 would fall into that latter category.

If I understand this correct, they mean that the F4U is NOT rich on Data?

To me it seems like the F4U has got enough data to make anyone happy, specially if compared to some other birds.

Mino · « **Reply #51 on:** September 19, 2002, 07:56:51 AM »

A little off topic but IMO I don't think the La7 should be perked.

The reason is that this plane gives new players a fighting chance. New players, like a friend of mine, are mostly just targets. Given a chance to succeed is provided by the La7 ( or planes like it) and they enjoy the game much more. This means they hang around longer.

Another option would be to seed new players with perk points for a limited time period and then go ahead and perk La7 and the other dominate late war MA rides.

-ammo- · « **Reply #52 on:** September 19, 2002, 08:03:48 AM »

F4UDOA-

Guilty of never visiting your webpage (at least if I did i didnt know it was yours). Please provide link.

It stands out though that the evidence is there that the AH F4U-4 is undermodeled by what we have. What source documents did they use? 1000 FPM climbrate is significant. I haven't tested top speeds yet, but I am guessing we have a delta there too.

thx

Innominate · « **Reply #53 on:** September 19, 2002, 08:41:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mino

The reason is that this plane gives new players a fighting chance. New players, like a friend of mine, are mostly just targets. Given a chance to succeed is provided by the La7 ( or planes like it) and they enjoy the game much more. This means they hang around longer.

This is true, and it's good, however the problem is that it's exploited by pilots who have advanced beyond needing such planes.

Still, turners are usually better suited for newbies. It's usually not the new pilots who worry too much about surviving, or running down goons while being pursued by a half a dozen enemies.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #54 on:** September 19, 2002, 09:05:59 AM »

Wilbus,

I think they meant that the F4U-4 fit into the latter category of having information but not the time to do anything about about it. Indeed the F4Uhas more source documentation that pretty much any American fighter, even the P-51. I have never seen this kind of data on a P-51.

Ammo,

Are you a P-47 guy?? Did you notice how fast the P-47 is at sea level on those charts?? 350MPH, hows that. Anyway these were all Vought A/C test.

Here is my URL

F4UDOA's Web page

Wilbus · « **Reply #55 on:** September 19, 2002, 09:06:40 AM »

Ammo, do what I do, copy the link address of one F4U's charts then just remove the picture address in the address field, will bring you to the first page.

Even 500 feet per minute is a significant climb error.

Acording to AH charts the F4u-4 in AH will top out at about 27k with a speed of approximatly 440-445mph. Will have to check it digital to get exact numbers.

Another porked perk?

Wilbus · « **Reply #56 on:** September 19, 2002, 09:10:26 AM »

F4u, personally I think allt his about not having time to fix some planes is total BS.

Fix planes and make them usefull and modelled good instead of just throwing out a bunch of new planes that may or may not be modelled right. Instead of making a new plane take that time to fix one or two planes that are badly modelled or make them usefull (IE. Possible give F4u the 130 octane fuel and Spit 14 the 150 etc etc). This would make them both usefull instead of just flown by enthusiast or those of us who likes the challange.

Not pissed off at you, just the way AH has been going the past year or so...

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 19, 2002, 09:24:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by whgates3
anyone know if the WWII version of the F4U-4 could carry more than 2 bombs?

I recal reading that it could carry up to 4 bombs, but not 4k worth of bombs, and it had to takeoff from ground bases.

This recent info sucks about the F4U-4 in AH...its performanse charts don't seem to reflect it's AH profile, and the hogs are the ONLY rides where the drag coeffecient is implemented on the wing mounting points, so whats the deal here? The corsairs are pretty much the only plane I fly, and to think I'm flying a porked bird is a real "drag"

(bad day in the office, sorry for the negative vibes!)

Gainsie

-ammo- · « **Reply #58 on:** September 19, 2002, 09:40:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA

Ammo,

Are you a P-47 guy?? Did you notice how fast the P-47 is at sea level on those charts?? 350MPH, hows that. Anyway these were all Vought A/C test.

Here is my URL

F4UDOA's Web page

Thx for the URL.

Oh yes, I am a jughead. FYI, the D11 will do 345 OTD. The D30 and D25 reach 340 OTD. Not *too* far off your numbers. They are also a little slow to published 25K numbers too.

My biggest gripe is the omittance of the Hamilton or Curtis prop on the D11. Still, The D11 flies Ok. Also, the extremely heavy loadout option for the D30 is wrong (at least I can't find a reference).