Author Topic: Why fly perk planes? (Read 1135 times)

Wotan · « **Reply #45 on:** August 30, 2002, 04:59:37 PM »

karnak i have more kills in a d9 because its easy to kill in. I fly it less then the 190a5.

in the d9 I had sorties of 7 8 11 kills.

I have 24 kills in the ki 61 , 29 in the a5 , 13 in the g6 , 14 in the f8.

my k/d vrs la7s is 8 to 1 flying mostly slow planes. I hardly ever climb above 15k. My "skills" are average. k/d means little.

Heinkel (my squaddie) has near 10 to 1 k/d). He has a 33 to 1 k/d in the d9. He has a 10.5 to 1 against spit 9s. he is 25 and 3 in the g6.

None of this is the point.

The point is if you wished to fly a perk plane then there is a way you can go out earn perk points quickly. By flying planes with a hi eny value and killing planes with a lo eny value.

Planes arent perked based on performance. So for you to judge its value based on how you perform in it is wrong. They maybe less fun to fly but thats not the point either.

The f4u-4 is in the top 10 k/d of all planes in ah. So is the ta-152, So is the spit 14, so is the temp so is the 262. So is the chog.

Some how people fly these planes and arent run down by the hordes of perk chasing la7s. I maybe fly 3 to 4 perk sorties a tour and when I die it has always been because I screwed up.

edit

moto

I dont know what you are trying to say. Maybe a language thing or I am just stupid but could you spell it out a little more clearly for me.

Karnak · « **Reply #46 on:** August 30, 2002, 06:08:22 PM »

GRUNHERZ,

Whatever.

Sure, I could stop the P-38L from having arrived higher by....

I don't know, you tell me how you affect the actions of other players who are 12+ miles away.

Basically your solution said "Karnak, you moron, you actually engaged in combat. You idiotm don't you know that you should just sit up in the stratosphere?"

If I had ensured that I was higher than the P-38L, I would not have been able to fight anything as nothing was up there to fight. I was BnZing lower aircraft, which were steadily pulling the fight down as they always will. When my E state started getting a bit stale (I was never low on E) I used the Spit XIV's tremendous climb capability to climb away from the La-7 and N1K2. I had escaped both, they were no longer any sort of threat. When the P-38L started coming down on me I did a break turn into his path, as per basic fighter tactics. I added rudder slide to the turn to make my path of travel less apparent to the P-38's pilot so as to make his shot harder. He hit me anyways and took off my left wing.

To end, the falacies in your assumptions are as follows:

I couldn't get away from the La-7. Fact: I had escaped the La-7.

I broke away from the P-38L's fire and gave him my 6. Fact: I broke into the P-38's path and he hit me in a 75 degree deflection shot.

I could have been both above the P-38 and still participating in the game. Fact: The P-38 came in at 15-20k and the fight was at 5k.

You have escaped La-7s in a Bf109G-6 (you didn't out run them over a long haul) and this perfectly translates to being able to do it in a Spitfire Mk XIV or Mosquito. Fact: The La-7 pilot would certainly assume he was facing a Bf109G-10, which is almost as fast as the La-7 at sea level and faster at higher altitudes. Therefore, when you screamed down in a Bf109G-6 and were pulling away he assumed that your 109 was a G-10 and not worth the effort of chasing down. The La-7 seeing a Mosquito knows that it isn't anywhere near as fast because there is no version confusion. He knows it is an easy kill, for many reasons. The La-7 seeing the Spitfire Mk XIV knows he is faster and besides, it is a perk plane. He'll stick to it like glue for no other reason than that. I've had a Spitfire Mk IX chase my Spitfire Mk XIV, that it couldn't possibly catch, for two full sectors simply because I was in a perk plane.

To sum it up, you're full of it.

Wotan,

I thought I had made the point. I do fly aircraft with high ENY values and I do kill aircraft with low ENY values. This is an idiotic point you seem to think you're using against me. It is all moot and doesn't matter as I can fly any aircraft in the game, I just don't see the point of perk planes other than the Me262 and F4U-1C. The Tempest is marginally OK with a perk tag as it, at least, is a few miles per hour faster than the La-7. Perk planes, particularly the Ta152H-1, F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV, are simply no fun to fly because of the icons.

Taking away the icons, but leaving the perk cost, does not suddenly mean people won't fly to live in their perk rides, it simply means that non uber, great, experten, aces would have a shot at making it home. As it stands, perk planes are really only usable by the best players in the game.

Innominate · « **Reply #47 on:** August 30, 2002, 06:30:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan

The f4u-4 is in the top 10 k/d of all planes in ah. So is the ta-152, So is the spit 14, so is the temp so is the 262. So is the chog.

The chog has a much higher kill ratio than the f4u-4.(This says SOMETHING is definitly wrong)
The 190D-9 has a higher kill ratio than the f4u-4.
If you perked any of the 1944-45 aircraft in the game, It would also be in the top10 k/d.

Wotan · « **Reply #48 on:** August 30, 2002, 07:42:33 PM »

the d9 is not flown as much as the chog was and would be flown as much as the f4u-4.

My point about their k/d was to counter the claims that they "get run down chased by all dweebs in la7s p51s, spit and nikis. People who do fly umm kill more then those who chase them.

I would np at all if ht perked the d9. I have suggested this on numerous posts.

But all it would do is reduce the number of times its flown.

All the planes that are perked need to be.

As to perk icons once again. Thats simply a response to your fear of losing your perks. I get chased in any plane I fly, regardless of icons. Hiding behind your icon because you cant deal with the fact people want to kill you is rediculous.

Look at the la7 charts, look at the spit and niki charts. this will clue you into how to fly your perk plane.

The only plane you need worry about is a p51. The p51 is the most shot down aircraft in Aces High. There are great 51 pilots out there but most are terrible. It doesnt take a whole lotta skills to shoot umm down.

The reason perk planes are less fun to fly for some is they are afraid to lose their perks if shot down. As if they have some value. So they fly all cautious instead of just having fun with it.

Manage your speed and e in a perk plane and the odds of you gettin run down by the hordes of perk plane haters is slim to none.

Re-adjusting perk values because you feel a plane aint worth it is not the way to go about it.

Karnak if you kill 3 spit9s in your mossie and land it its 15 perks.

dont land it its 12

For this tour you killed 3 b26s and 3 la7s

you aint gonna get crap fer perks killing bombes

you killed 3 la7s

40/15 = 8 perks if you dont land it 10 if ya do

you killed 2 p51s

40/12 = 6.6 (7) land it you get 8.3 (8)

The rest of the planes you killed in terms of perk value arent worth the bullets.

You kill more more planes on the mid to higher side of eny value. I know you said you kills planes with a hi eny value but atleast this tour that aint true.

You can kill what ever you want. But I'll repeat again if a guy wants to fly any perk plane and wants to do it fast. Then up and plane with an eny value of 35+ and kill spit9s .

Dont tell me the spit 9 is so uber that killing them in a mossie is too hard. Dont tell me you dont see plenty of spitfires cause they are everywhere. If ya cant find a spit 8 there always a niki.

If you can hold a 3.5k/d flyin a mossie (you have 7 kills 2 deaths) then you can accumulate perk points fast. You have to target the correct planes.

I always look for the spit, niki, p51, la7 in that order when I want to get perks. A 205 is perfect for this. A ki61 is great but you need more discipline.

The alternative to a perk sys is an rps. In an rps you only get 1 day a month to fly these planes. Now you can fly them whenever you want. If you dont have enough perks you know what you have to do to get umm.

Karnak · « **Reply #49 on:** August 30, 2002, 08:03:44 PM »

Wotan,

So you categorically deny that people treat enemy aircraft with perk icons any differently than any other enemy aircraft?

You completely misunderstand why I don't like perk icons.

Innominate · « **Reply #50 on:** August 30, 2002, 08:53:49 PM »

Wotan:

You are correct that perk points are easy to get. The cost is not the issue.

You are also correct that any perk plane is able to survive p51s, la7s, whatever. However, ANY plane is able to do this. The FREE planes are better at this than the gangbang tagged perk planes. (This is also why the C-hog comes up so high in the k/d list. People fly it like a perk plane, but dont have to worry about the gangbang tags) This tour I am 21 and 1 in the 190A-5, not because of it's performance, but because of being a potato in it. Survival isn't the plane, but rather in how it is flown.

Any perked plane will be in the top10 for kill ratios, simply because of the conservative nature of flying them.

The gangbang tags mean that you need to be even more convservative. In the 190, if someone comes in above me, I know that I only need to dodge them once or twice before they move on, and often they'll just ignore me. With a gangbang tagged plane, ANYONE coming in high will immediatly lock onto you. When you dive past or through a furball, you're guarenteed to catch the eyes of several people.

I don't care about the cost of the plane. I don't even care about losing the perks. I want to spend my perks on a plane that will be a fun flight, not sitting on alt-x for 10minutes, diving on someone, extending to get away from the gangbang, and then another 5 minutes on alt-x for another go.

Do I want a plane that has a signficant advantage over my opponents? Yes I do. Perk planes should have an edge in a fight. Right now all they do is draw attention. Flying a perk plane shouldnt mean you get to fly a superior plane over a fight and watch the action from several thousand feet above.

Double or triple the cost, or even have the cost come into play no matter how the sortie ends. The cost is unimportant if FIGHTING in them isn't fun.

Wotan · « **Reply #51 on:** August 31, 2002, 02:01:36 AM »

you have posted in numerous threads that this or that perk cost to much. If cost is irrelevant they why the posts?

You say you dont want them unperked, then why the posts?

How about this, you just up a plane and have fun?

Whether its costs perks or not. Why worry about if the plane cost you XX perks. Just up fly like you would anything else and have fun. If ya die, well ya die. So what if it cost you 35 perks or 70?

You only fly "more conservative" because you are worried about the perk "value". Perk points in and of themselves are meaningless. So you hold umm because if you take off in a perk plane you are some how bound to fly it in a way that its no fun.

There was guy that quit ah because he claimed a c47 kept trying the ram his 262. As if the 200 perks were real money. I have fun when I fly a perk plane but I have more fun flying others.

When I fly a 262 I am not sitting here worrying about how many perks it cost me. I fly it the way I fly every plane. I even lost 1 to a pt boat. Big deal I had fun.

Again perk planes arent perk based on performance alone. Just because ht assigned a value of 70 perks to a plane doesnt mean that plane is any better then a free one.

No matter what plane it is its the guy flying that makes it worth something.

You fly in bob with heinkel, he is my squaddie. The 110s are operated to their strengths in the event, They arent locked to the bombers as escorts like they were in the real BoB.

Look at the results of the 110s. Their k/d is higher then the rest.

Why because the are flown to its stregth. Same with any plane. When I fly a d9 or e4 or a a5 in the main I know what I can do in each plane. I fly to its strength and do ok.

Thats the same with each perk plane. If you dont wanna fly the way it was designed to be flown and if you get killed because you think you are in some super plane well thats on you.

Take a temp into a furball and mix it up. Get aggressive and dont worry about losing your perks or if the guy who shoots you is laughing at you. After a few kills you will see what the plane can do. Same with the f4u-4.

You will be like GD. how did I make out of there.

Innominate · « **Reply #52 on:** August 31, 2002, 02:17:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
you have posted in numerous threads that this or that perk cost to much. If cost is irrelevant they why the posts?

You say you dont want the unperked, then why the posts?

How about this, you just up a plane and have fun?

Whether its costs perks or not. Why worry about f the plane cost you XX perks. Just up fly like you would anything else and have fun. If ya die, well ya die. So what if it cost you 35 perks instead of 70?

You only fly "more conservative" because you are worried about the perk "value". Perk points in and of themselves are meaningless. So you hold umm because if you take off in a perk plane you are some how bound to fly it in a way that its no fun.

What posts?
I think you're thinking of someone else. I want the perk-tags to be gone, not for the prices to be changed.

Spending 10minutes climbing, another 10 looking for someone at that alt to fight, and then another 10 heading home isnt much fun. Getting gangbanged by everyone within 3000yards isnt fun. I don't care about losing perks, anymore than I care about dying when I'm flying a 190.

Having someone constantly chasing you, eliminating the ability to do anything but a high-alt hit and run is not my idea of a good time.

If you fly a perk plane, you WILL be gangbanged, the only real advantage is that it gives nearby friendlies the chance for an easy kill or two. If you fly a FREE plane like it was a perk plane, you will do MUCH better than in ANY prop-perk plane(excep the chog, which is a perfect example of how the gangbang tags cripple the perk prop-planes) This is the failure of the perk system. The chog's kill ratio would go way down if it were labled "F4U1C".

Note that the tempest is an exception, since it is fast enough to run from even an la7.

Results of the poll I posted a while ago(I could post a new one if anyone would like):

Wotan · « **Reply #53 on:** August 31, 2002, 02:27:44 AM »

Quote

categorically deny that people treat enemy aircraft with perk icons any differently than any other enemy aircraft?

You completely misunderstand why I don't like perk icons.

Of course they do karnak. They want to be the one that gets the "perk plane" as if its the great white whale of aces high.

But unlike you I see that as more an advantage then a problem.

I also believe that if flown properly any of the perk planes in ah are more then a match for any other.

But that said even when I am in a non perk plane people try to kill me. It doesnt bother then and it doesnt bother me if they try to kill me in my perk plane. In fact they fly more "stupid" going after the perk kill making it easier for me to kill them.

I target specific planes in the main. Planes I prefer to kill more then any other. I fly 190s. I know there are folks who want to kill 190s more then any other. I take none of it personally. I am not upset if I get killed in a perk plane any more then any other.

Innominate · « **Reply #54 on:** August 31, 2002, 02:32:30 AM »

Ok wotan,
What is the proper way to --edit-- FIGHT IN the F4U-4 in the MA environment, without having to worry about being gangbanged?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #55 on:** August 31, 2002, 07:17:46 AM »

Karnak you simply messued up and did not take care to see if higher cons were coming in. I always try to disengage if I see hig enemy coming in to the fight because no matter what plane they fly if they are much higher they can dive in fast .and take away my most valuable assest - the ability to disengage. And you can run away from from pretty much every plane within the 6k icon range and even farther if you look at the dots and dar.

So yes you basically diddlyed up. Your incredibly rude response tells me you see yourself as aas some high skill superior pilot who is beyond fault and criticism. Certainly not the humble average level, low time pilot with 230 perk points you so often present yourself as. Why else would you snap so hard at my criticizm, especially after I explained to Mark that any smug attitude in my first post was a clearly a joke. I tried to give you a solution that worked for me in a very slow plane, and you attacked me. As foolish as this may sound on the BBS I'm surprised by your attack and will not offer your superior piloting skills any more tips in the future.

Go to hell.... And take your faultless flying with you..

So in the end you basically suck as pilot.

Karnak · « **Reply #56 on:** August 31, 2002, 04:06:07 PM »

Wotan,

I agree with you that any perk fighter (except perhaps the F4U-4 and F4U-1C) is more than a match for any non-perk fighter. I disagree that any perk fighter is more than a match for multiple non-perk fighters.

GRUNHERZ,

I am far, far from that. You're attitude is exactly what you accuse me of. You're so certain of yourself and so full of yourself that you don't even understand what I said.

There was no way to both fight and avoid the higher cons. It was not possible. I had to choose one or the other. I chose to fight.

Following your instuctions I would have turned and run before I ever engaged. Boy, that sure would be fun. What fun it is to take a super plane and run away. Wheeeeee! So much fun.

Got it?

Oh, I know that in your Aryan masterhood you'd have simply shot them all down if you'd managed to force yourself into such a dweebish, easymode thing as a Spitfire (the horror), but not all of us can aspire to such lofty heights of perfection.

J_A_B · « **Reply #57 on:** August 31, 2002, 08:06:42 PM »

P-51's and LA7's and P-38's and F6F's and everything else gets gangbanged too in AH. Being ganged up on is not unique to the perk planes.

Heck, I'd venture to sugest that Zekes or FM2's in AH get ganged up on a lot more than any perk plane does.

When I die (and I die entirely too much), it's usually because I get ganged up on, not unlike Karnak's example (I'm busy with one or two CONS while another higher one comes in). This has nothing to do with the ICON and everything to do with the nature of the MA--the ICON is, at best, a red herring.

The way I see it is some people are convinced that the ICON will cause them to be ganged up on in a perk ride....then when they DO get ganged up on, it's automatically blamed on the ICON regardless of the fact that a non-perk plane in the same situation would usually face the same fate. Well, not exactly the same....if Karnak had been flying a P-51 instead of the Spit 14, he'd have just been chased down and killed by the LA7 instead of out-climbing it. Had he been flying a Mosquito he'd have probably died even sooner.

The important issue IMO is the inherent limitations of the perk system. Getting ganged isn't the real problem; the problem is getting ganged in a perkplane often means you might not be able to fly it again for a week (and this is a problem if you love that particular plane, like Karnak and the Mk.14). This is where the advantages of having sepate arenas become apparent.

J_A_B

Innominate · « **Reply #58 on:** September 01, 2002, 03:07:23 AM »

JAB, While it is true that you'll get ganged no matter what you fly, it happens more so in a perk plane. The difference is that, people will drop what they're doing to chase down a perk plane, or go after the perk plane instead of another one who they have a bigger advantage over.

Nobody will fly past an easy to kill p51d, to get to an easy to kill n1k2 And I seriously doubt anyone would go after the p51d, when there is an f4u4 behind it that would make an easy kill. (By easy to kill I mean, the plane is in such a position to almost guarentee the kill.)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #59 on:** September 01, 2002, 02:05:26 PM »

Karnak youre being a little salamander because you feel I insulted your uber flying skills.

And dont go pushing any Nazi bs on me you little toejam. I see you are in some sort of Japanese squad now and they had the same and worse mentality, policy, prejudices and warcrimes, and the worst treatement of POWs of anyone.