Author Topic: Is religion a good thing? (Read 1483 times)

Masherbrum · « **Reply #60 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:41:52 AM »

Are you religious Wulfe?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #61 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:45:56 AM »

No, why?
-SW

Ripsnort · « **Reply #62 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:51:48 AM »

I choose to keep my beliefs to myself, but lets just say I'm tolerant of anyones beliefs, except those Jedi wacko's, and obviously flawed extremist fundementalism beliefs (I think of Jim Jones, and Osama when I say that...)

Masherbrum · « **Reply #63 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:52:39 AM »

Just curious because I would have to think the ones stirring this nest for NO REASON, are not religious.

K2

miko2d · « **Reply #64 on:** August 29, 2002, 11:59:23 AM »

Masherbrum,
You have to agree with Voltaire in a practical matter - religious or any people have few problems with highly intelligent atheists - especially mentally balanced and of libertarian persuasion.
I do not care what you believe as long as you behave and not infringe on my liberties or force your views on me and my children.
As long as you do not train your children to hurt me and mine, it's not my right to decide if you instill God in them, love them, torture them or do whatever you want with them.

Of course the left - what we call "liberal" intellectuals are often fanatically and almost violently anti-religious but that may as well be their religion.

At the same time people of low intellect and little prospects of success in society are much more prone to violence and antisocial behavior and intellectual persuasion does not work on them. So a way to control their antisocial tendencies through painless belief system is great.

P.S. Voltaire is not here to defend from you putting crap into his mouth. But I am sure that he - living in predominantly religious culture - had an opportunity to observe plenty of intelligent religious people and not have an opinion you attribute to him. If your ead his letters addressed to the religious people of the time, you would not find any offences there based on religion.

Your attempt to claim yourself a victim of imagined slight is pathetic. Pretending to be offended where offence is never intended and has to be manufactured. Also, the way you express your thoughts makes me doubt that you are "smarter than the majority of the people" you ran across.

Rip, let's get some sandwich boards and write stuff on them "Religion doesn't exist, and other things to that effect."
Where the heck did that come from? Through which chain of logic? Who ever claimed religion did not exist?
Some people do not believe that supernatural creator exists, not religion - if you are capable of grasping the difference.
For instance being catholic you probably do not believe that Zeuss and Aphrodite exist or modern hindu pantheon. Does that mean you do not believe that ancient greeks did have a religion with those and many others as central figures? Modern hindus?

Nobody here disrespects Rip for being religious. If someone respects you less than you would like, religion may be not the reason for that.

miko

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #65 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:00:45 PM »

I'm not stirring anything... but I guess if that's the way you want to see it, fine by me.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #66 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:00:52 PM »

Here's a thought for ya, Miko- suppose what Voltaire meant by the comment was that, had religion not been a reality, it would have been necessary to invent it for the control of the lower class?

You see, if you take the possible way of reading it I gave you, it would be possible to infer that, while Voltaire was an elitist, he was also a believer.

Of course I am not suggesting this, but it does tend to make one a little more careful about how one attributes quotes, wouldn't you say?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #67 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:12:17 PM »

Miko, I'm smarter than you give me credit for. 1.) I don't insult, cut down others (practice what "you preach). 2.) I don't feel the need to slam religion, what's next on the hit parade?

Voltaire and other authors do not rule my life. I can give a rat's bellybutton if after sitting around all day in smoking jacket lighting cigars with $100 bills and say "Hey, Voltaire is a genius". Or if someone is not as well to do comes up with the same idea in his grey matter, who's better? Does the "bread winner" beat the "not as fortunate" person.

I live life, read, can careless how intelligent a person is. I help out strangers, flip a coin to a homeless, and all of the other things that a HUMAN BEING should do. It's called put yourself in their shoes, it must suck. The people who scoff at that last sentence, are snobs.

Enjoy life, keep flaming religion for no reason, YOU show your true colors Miko. Keep "trying to be right"

Masher

PS - Speaking of "classes", most Americans making $30,000-$70,000 think "Hey, I'm middle class". WRONG, it starts at $100,000. Go ahead debate it, I know someone will "have to right".

midnight Target · « **Reply #68 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:14:11 PM »

IIRC Voltaire was jailed for Atheism.

My 2 favorite Voltairisms...

I have only ever made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Seems as though some of us are a little too sensitive. Was Voltaire saying that only the lower class benefitted from religion? I don't think so.

miko2d · « **Reply #69 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:16:58 PM »

Kieran,
Whatever. We do know Voltaire was an atheist but he might as well have been religious and said that - about his own and any other religion.
We have plenty of examples of christian priests passing good (or bad) judgements on native religions they encountered. The non-violent ones were clearly prefered to those requiring ritual manslaughter or cannibalism.

I am pissed off because there is absolutely no offence intended or given by me by (mis?)quoting Voltaire. In fact half of pro-religious arguments you hear around is how usefull religious is - as if utility has anything to do with being correct. Why the heck did not Masherbrum assume that I made a compliment to religion rather than offended his and Rip's intelligence? Because he is just looking for a fight and is willing to imagine any pretext for it.

miko

Masherbrum · « **Reply #70 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:21:28 PM »

Religion usually is sensative, what in the heck did you expect? A happy, cheery discussion?!

If someone else does NOT believe in a religion. That is STRICTLY their choice. I don't frown upon it, everyone should have that right, it is their life after all. I grew up in a non-religious family and after 24 years, I became Catholic. I don't knock ANYONE, but when I'm knocked, I take offense. I DO NOT treat a "non-believer" any different from a "Believer". But it is childish to slam religions, regardless of what they believe in.

Masher

Masherbrum · « **Reply #71 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:29:26 PM »

Miko, you may be pissed, but I am not, and you shouldn't be. A computer screen might make it seem like I am pissed, I'm not. If all of us were at a roundtable, I wouldn't be raising my voice.

K2

midnight Target · « **Reply #72 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:30:51 PM »

If we were at a roundtable I'd buy the first round.

Urchin · « **Reply #73 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:32:39 PM »

Yea, religion is sort of a touchy subject. I think I'm to cynical to be able to accept anything 'on faith'. Sometimes I'm rather jealous of religious people, since they can point to God and say "look, there is a reason that everything happens, and this life is really just preparation for our everlasting life to follow." Rather beats my outlook of "There really isn't a REASON for anything, you aren't put on earth for any purpose, and when you die all that happens is the worms eat your body".

Hum... come to think of it, maybe I should go get some religion...

Masherbrum · « **Reply #74 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:34:23 PM »

Looks like Buddhaism is for you Urchin!

K2