Author Topic: Patton- Crazy?  (Read 1524 times)

Offline senna

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2002, 01:33:10 AM »
"George Patton decided during childhood that his goal in life was
to be a hero."

Well theres the problem right there, he totaly missed the 80s by 40 years.

Easymo, please dont flip out and kill anybody.

Offline john9001

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2002, 01:53:56 AM »
Einstein of course fled to the USA where he could make such self-rightous speechs comdeming war and those who fought to keep his arse safe

Offline fdiron

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2002, 03:31:06 AM »
Einstein fled while the Germans murdered his bretheren, and he wouldn't even help build the atomic bomb.

Quote
Anyways its not like there is any sanity in war.


Not sure that I can agree with this.  Sure, combat is chaotic, but I don't think everyone is insane who fights in a war.  

Patton took undue risks with his men's lives.  Wars don't last forever, and Patton ended many of his men's lives in order to capture a town a bit quicker, in order to be the first to take a bridge, or in order to get a bit of fame in the papers.

Its not the General who gets on the front lines and fights.  Generals don't assault towns and shoot Germans hiding in buildings.  Generals aren't the crewmembers in M4 Shermans when they approach hidden 88mm anti-tank guns.

Is it my opinion that Patton could have saved alot of U.S. lives by using a bit more strategy than "all out attack".

Offline wulfie

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2002, 04:03:23 AM »
You guys are all (relatively) clueless. :)

Read my thread on Yamamoto, Patton, and Rommel.

Mike/wulfie

Offline senna

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2002, 04:19:24 AM »
Einstien was a coward obviously. He was smart (or maybe he was just lucky) but then when was the last time you heard stories of a wild man with crazy electric hair blasting everybody on the battlefield to smithereans.

Wulfie! wasup?

I still havent forgiven you for draggin me down 10k and gettin me kilt in my P-38.

:)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 04:21:33 AM by senna »

Offline wulfie

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2002, 04:26:27 AM »
Senna when was that? (I honestly can't remember refresh my memory).

Mike/wulfie

Offline senna

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2002, 04:32:44 AM »
It was the island map, the night Yankee was online. I was floating up to 20k as usual in my P-38 and heard some stuff over voice comms. You were saying, "senna save some for me". Looked back 6 low, you were out about a ways still. I orbited and you engaged, then you were outnumbered and headed south so I went down to help and I got kilt. Said to myself, that wulfie, cant believe he got me kilt. What a situation. Funny thing is that you stayed alive for quite a while after they got me with all them bandits around in that 190, musta been an a5. Think I was chasing a spit and you a 109 then a yak and la-7 showed up then more. We were down at around 1000 ft.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 04:35:44 AM by senna »

Offline Toad

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2002, 07:40:40 AM »
Quote
AnimalThis quote is not directed at the fine men who had no choice but to fight, and did it valiantly with honor. They are better than I am and I wont deny that.
[/b]

Only those that "had no choice but to fight" are admirable?

So your contention then is that professional military men are "scum"?

Those that CHOOSE to learn the profession of arms because they know "someone has to do it" are scum?


The hole?  There's an old saying..."when you find yourself in a hole, quit digging!" You obviously hadn't heard it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2002, 08:06:40 AM »
I believe this is all just more of animals much vaunted "knack" for reaing people and winning debate.
lazs

Offline lord dolf vader

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2002, 08:11:59 AM »
sorry animal you wouldent have been alowed to fight for patton you wouldent pass the paper bag test :)

Offline wulfie

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2002, 09:33:03 AM »
Okay I think I remember that...but:

1. It was a D-9 if it was this most recent TOD. Been putting in some D-9 time (all sorties this TOD are D-9).

2. You couldn't have heard me on vox - no mic and no headphones and I have vox totally disabled. All messages from me outside of 'auto-check 6' are going to be text messages.

Mike/wulfie

Offline wulfie

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2002, 09:45:00 AM »
The lack of respect for professional military men in American society before WW2 was what caused the U.S. military in WW2 to be 'an army of inexperienced volunteers led by a core of professionals'.

The U.K. and other Allies were amazed at how much the U.S. military expanded under this type of program and how fast and smooth said expansion went (remember - most European Nations have a long professional military tradition). But when this expansion met with some problems (due to losses of 'core professional personnel', and no 'career professionals' around to fill in for those losses) the U.S. military suffered a disproportionately high # of casualties - especially in ground combat in NWE.

So, in short - the lack of respect for professional/career military men in U.S. society before WW2 actually led to higher U.S. losses. There's a lesson to be learned there, but the U.S. has a habit of forgetting hard earned lessons 'until the next disaster hits'.

For a good account of this, read 'Proud Legions' by T.R. Fehrnbach (some of Fehrnbach's writings are required reading for all potential flag rank officers in the U.S. military if memory serves).

(During World War II, Mr. Fehrenbach served with the U.S. Infantry and Engineers as Platoon Sergeant with the 3189th Engineer Battalion. He continued his military career in the Korean War, rising from Platoon Leader to Company Commander and then to Battalion Staff Officer of the 72nd Tank battalion, 2nd Infantry Division. He is currently a Major, Armor USAR. Previous to his military involvement, a young T.R. Fehrenbach, born in San Benito Texas, worked as a farmer and the owner of an insurance company. He now devotes his time to free-lance writing. He has sold numerous pieces to publications such as the Saturday Evening Post and Argosy. He is the author of several books, including U.S. Marines in Action, The Battle of Anzio, and This Kind of War. Mr. Fehrenbach still lives in Texas.)

Mike/wulfie

Offline midnight Target

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2002, 09:58:14 AM »
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Einstein fled while the Germans murdered his bretheren, and he wouldn't even help build the atomic bomb.


Define help?

And.... are you saying that the "brave Jews" stayed in Germany to die? C'mon!

Offline Animal

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2002, 10:41:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad


Only those that "had no choice but to fight" are admirable?

So your contention then is that professional military men are "scum"?

Those that CHOOSE to learn the profession of arms because they know "someone has to do it" are scum?


The hole?  There's an old saying..."when you find yourself in a hole, quit digging!" You obviously hadn't heard it. [/B]


Sorry, I havent found myself in a hole.
You havent answered my question, what does it mean? 'get in line or you'll be disliked' or something like that?
LOL, like I wanna be one more sad retard like TOWD "please dont ban me I'll be good now" or lasz "I'm not las he is a poopie, i'm lasz I'm cool!". No thanks, I'll keep diggin' a hole, and you are invited in from time to time.

Those who train for war are not scum in my book. Not all of them.

But those who seem to enjoy it as if it was a fine cigar, classical music, or a good game of chess, are scum. Same as those who just cant wait for battle. If you have been associated with the military, you know what I mean. There are many of those to go around. Those eager for battle, "When does the toejam start! I cant wait for combat, maybe I should get reassigned!"

You disagree? do you think they are just fine men who have a god blessed  'knack' for killing many people?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 10:44:46 AM by Animal »

Offline Boroda

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Patton- Crazy?
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2002, 10:44:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
if you were not 4-F


What is 4-F? Not able for combat service? Here we have such a code "7B", "not able for combat service due to mental disability".
[Edit] Please, no offences, it's just a folklore element here in Ruissia, we even have a pop-band called "7b"...


I can't judge about mr. Patton, the only "serious" book about "allied" forces in Europe was Omar Bradley's "Soldier's Diary" (BTW, translated to Russian in mid-50s). From that book I got an idea that Patton was absolutely crazy :( Even considering it was war time. There is nothing more dangerous then a crazy general at war :(

I also saw a movie "Patton", and I want to say it's 50% crappy cold war propaganda. :( It's based on Bradley's book (at least it's what I read in credits after the film), but all the attitude is completely different from Bradley's opinion... And that scene with Soviet officers is extremely stupid. Bradley was very warm about his allies, only said they were precautioned to take some mineral oil before dinner with Russians, and was humorous about "military" artists performing to the generals and how he have "beaten" Soviet generals with his "military" violin player  ;)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 10:49:13 AM by Boroda »