Author Topic: Colin Powell for President?  (Read 923 times)

Offline eskimo2

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2002, 03:29:26 PM »
Powell is the only person that I can think of that I would enthusiastically support.

eskimo

Offline SirLoin

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2002, 03:54:36 PM »
Pardon my lack of knowledge,but isn't Powell a Democrat?
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline Fyre

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2002, 04:48:58 PM »
Sirloin,

Nope, he's not a Democrat.  He's a Republican.  An African-American who is a Republican.  One of the rarest birds in the political ecosystem.  With more brains and talent than the last ex-general to be elected President, Dwight Eisenhower.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Kieran

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2002, 04:58:27 PM »
I don't know, AK, I find myself voting for a man like Powell because of integrity, bearing, and the fact he has some pretty good foreign relation experience. My question about him would revolve around his domestic agenda more than anything else...

...and you have to admit, he has a far more presidential bearing than anyone else on the scope at the moment. Black or not, that matters...

Offline Charon

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2002, 05:03:44 PM »
Great discussion and solid analysis. He makes a great candidate, but as noted he does seem to be an unlikely choice from the republican party standpoint.

Charon

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2002, 09:00:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by H. Godwineson
He and his campaigne staff may have adopted a policy of distancing themselves from Clinton in June of 2000, but it was STILL too late.


He and his campaign staff adopted the policy of distancing themselves from Clinton in June of 1999, not 2000.  You can't get any earlier than that when it comes to presidential campaigns.

I'm also well aware of Gore's history as a Vice President, but what you've done here is apply your own experiences with Gore to the general public, and that almost always proves erroneous.  The fact is that gun control is simply not a hot button issue in presidential campaigns for most Americans; we know this from years of polling data.

In addition, the logic of your argument doesn't hold up.  You argue on the one hand that the Democrats suffered in 1994 congressional elections because of policies that angered the South and West, and that Gore likewise paid for this in 2000.  Yet you conveniently ignore the 1996 presidential election and the 1998 congressional elections.  Did voters in the South and West forget to seethe during those years, but they remembered to do so again when Gore was running?  Clinton captured plenty of states in the South and West in 1996 despite the anger you purport over gun control.  In 1998, Democrats did far better than historically expected for mid-term elections.  Did gun enthusiasts suffer from temporary amnesia during that election?

It's also important to recognize that the 1990s saw the conclusion of a long regional partisan realignment in the South.  Traditionally conservative regions that had always voted Democrat dating to the Civil War finally began voting Republican as a reflection of new ideological realities.  Their representatives weren't necessarily any more or less conservative than before, it's just that they were now Republicans instead of Democrats.

As an aside and an addendum to what I'd written to Kieran earlier, there's been some interesting work done in political science on the 2000 election.  The best I've seen is by Bartels and Zaller (2001) who argue that prevailing models of presidential elections still predict electoral outcomes with great success... including the 2000 election... if we keep in mind a few facts easily overlooked or misconstrued.  First, voters retrospectively evaluate the economy for incumbent presidents, but they prospectively evaluate it for all other candidates, including the VP.  Thus while Clinton benefitted in 1996 from the economy and Bush Sr. suffered because of it in 1992, Gore gained little from the boom times of the 1990s.  Regardless of Clinton's legacy and Gore's attempts to distance himself or paint himself closer to Clinton, his candidacy was hurt by the fact that by November 2000, economic forecasts pointed to a declining economy.

Bartels and Zaller also argue that our predictions depend on how we operationalize the "state of the economy."  Usually political scientists measure this with GDP, but they argue persuasively that the more personal measure of Real Disposable Income (RDI) should be used instead.  While GDP grew robustly in 2000, RDI increased at a much slower pace.  If we take into account the dual facts that (1) Gore did not benefit for Clinton's economic legacy because of prospective economic evaluations by voters, and (2) the economic prospects based on RDI were grim, then the race was always much closer than conventional wisdom suggests.  It might never have been Gore's to lose in the first place, but rather a very real competition between roughly equal candidates.

-- Todd/Leviathn
« Last Edit: September 04, 2002, 09:05:15 PM by Dead Man Flying »

Offline Kieran

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2002, 09:09:44 PM »
I think your original assessment of Gore and his intended separation from Clinton rang more true with me, though I hate what this says about society. I think if he had clung to Clinton's coattails a little tighter he might have held a lot more votes from people that longed for "four more years".

OTOH, it might just be that Gore never really had a personality the people could warm to. After all, what real man needs to hire a women to teach him to be an "Alpha Male"? Gore to me just seems to be a man uncomfortable in his own skin.

Offline narsus

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2002, 08:09:35 AM »
I am pretty sure about this, but I believe that Powells only true deviation from the republican point of view is that he is Pro-Choice (can someone confirm this). I would vote Powell if he ran for President, but I would like to know what his domestic agenda is first though.

Offline popeye

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2002, 08:40:25 AM »
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline Kieran

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2002, 09:03:55 AM »
Seems to be pretty moderate.

Offline midnight Target

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Thanks Popeye
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2002, 09:23:44 AM »
Quote
You all know that I believe in a woman’s right to choose and I strongly support affirmative action. And, I was invited here by my party to share my views with you because we are a big enough party -- and big enough people -- to disagree on individual issues and still work together for our common goal: restoring the American Dream.



Hmmmmm. Now what do you all think?

Offline Kieran

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2002, 09:51:23 AM »
I think I am not as conservative as you think I am. I also think he may not be a perfect match for my mindset, but he's closer than most. I still believe affirmative action is failed in implementation, I am still against abortion, for example, but I could still vote for him.

Offline Sikboy

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2002, 10:22:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Colin Powell
You all know that I believe in a woman’s right to choose and I strongly support affirmative action. And, I was invited here by my party to share my views with you because we are a big enough party -- and big enough people -- to disagree on individual issues and still work together for our common goal: restoring the American Dream.



ahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, that's funny.  I don't mean this as a slight to the GOP, but Levi and I have gone over how this isn't reflected in Presidential politics.  If it were, I'd be a much happier voter.

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline H. Godwineson

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2002, 10:34:23 AM »
Dead Man Flying,

I didn't mean to leave the impression that the gun issue was the sole reason for Gore losing the conservative vote in 2000.

The appointment of future Supreme Court Judges was an issue that hurt him in the conservative areas of the country.
The famous Chinese temple/campaign finance scandal certainly didn't help him either.  The use of White House telephones to solicit campaign contributions in direct violation of federal law also exacted its toll.  Making statements such as "...there is no controlling legal authority..." didn't play very well in the heartland, where people seem to be bothered more about such ethical lapses on the part of their candidates.  An economy that was beginning to show signs of weakness may have hurt him some, but it wasn't nearly as strong a factor in the election of 2000 as it was in 1992.

Lastly, Gore was not the "teflon candidate" that Clinton was.  He had neither the personality nor the chutzpah to shake off the effects of the scandals and personal foibles that his predecessor had.   Despite his fumbling, broken grammar and, at times, awkward demeanor, Bush had more "personality" than Gore did.  Large numbers of moderate and conservative voters chose a weak Republican candidate rather than have "four more years" of the bumbler from Tennessee.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Kieran

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Colin Powell for President?
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2002, 10:59:53 AM »
Quote
Making statements such as "...there is no controlling legal authority..." didn't play very well in the heartland, where people seem to be bothered more about such ethical lapses on the part of their candidates.


Speaking from my place in the heartland, I say Amen! I remember where I was, and chuckling to myself, "Naw, he didn't REALLY say that, did he?!" I took it as the equivalent of "Yeah, I did it, screw you!"