Paul Van Riper's War

[10Bears]

I know this was postecd a week or so ago but this story has much more detail

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,787018,00.html

If the US and Iraq do go to war, there can only be one winner, can't there? Maybe not. This summer, in a huge rehearsal of just such a conflict - and with retired Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper playing Saddam - the US lost. Julian Borger asks the former marine how he did it[/i]

snip

What really happened is quite another story, one that has set alarm bells ringing throughout America's defence establishment and raised questions over the US military's readiness for an Iraqi invasion. In fact, this war game was won by Saddam Hussein, or at least by the retired marine playing the Iraqi dictator's part, Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper.

In the first few days of the exercise, using surprise and unorthodox tactics, the wily 64-year-old Vietnam veteran sank most of the US expeditionary fleet in the Persian Gulf, bringing the US assault to a halt.

What happened next will be familiar to anyone who ever played soldiers in the playground. Faced with an abrupt and embarrassing end to the most expensive and sophisticated military exercise in US history, the Pentagon top brass simply pretended the whole thing had not happened. They ordered their dead troops back to life and "refloated" the sunken fleet. Then they instructed the enemy forces to look the other way as their marines performed amphibious landings. Eventually, Van Riper got so fed up with all this cheating that he refused to play any more. Instead, he sat on the sidelines making abrasive remarks until the three-week war game - grandiosely entitled Millennium Challenge - staggered to a star-spangled conclusion on August 15, with a US "victory".[/i]

LOL I think Robert Duvall should play Van Riper in the movie

[Saintaw]

Well (read the article now)... lets just hope Sadam doesn't hire that guy.

Retrying it after the 1st try is a good point (for the sake of not ending a 2 year planned op in 1 day), but... what about the fact that they ignored/denied alternative tactics after that ? sounds very much like 'underestimating your opponent' to me.

Oh well, I see less & less differences between armed forces and big corporations nowadays... as long as the boss believes your bull, all goes well
 

[wsnpr]

LOL, kinda reminds me of some of the stories my dad would tell when he was in the Navy. Apparently during Sub vs Carrier group exercises, the sub was able to easily sink the carrier. After that the carrier would be ruled 'off-limits' and that the sub had to 'attack' the escorts instead.

[Toad]

I wonder why they play a wargame.

[Raubvogel]

How many of Van Riper's troops were modeled as conscripts who were poorly fed and equipped? Sorry, it's hard for me to forget that most of those guys were very happy to see me because I actually had food and water for them...unlike their own country.

[Creamo]

At 1st I'd say he is on our side, and he hardly mimic's that fool Saddam we completely destroyed a decade ago. Good for us and wargames to prepare for anything. That's good these days...

 But after further disbelief and common sense, I'd say his chest thumping pry caused a Soundblaster ahvoice error. Or maybe Cornered Rat wrote that wargame code.

They need to patch that program, seems like a load a toejam that bicycles as comm center "terrific tactical deployment" , and row boats with instant suicide bombers could wipe out the U.S. Fleet.

I envision them coming in on pleasure cruisers with those vulcan cannon type defense guns. Brrrrrap. Good lord.

Come on.

[Saintaw]

hmmm...aren't we/you supposed to train for 'the worse scenario' ?

That would be what I'd go for, personally... but of course, I'm not in the armed forces... so I might not understand all this too well.

[whgates3]

from a well known texas journalist, but only vaguely related

"Excuse me: I don't want to be tacky or anything, but hasn't it occurred to anyone in Washington that sending Vice President Dick Cheney out to champion an invasion of Iraq on the grounds that Saddam Hussein is a 'murderous dictator' is somewhere between bad taste and flaming hypocrisy?

"When Dick Cheney was CEO of the oilfield supply firm Halliburton, the company did $23.8 million in business with Saddam Hussein, the evildoer 'prepared to share his weapons of mass destruction with terrorists.'

"So if Saddam is 'the world's worst leader,' how come Cheney sold him the equipment to get his dilapidated oil fields up and running so he to could afford to build weapons of mass destruction?

"In 1998, the United Nations passed a resolution allowing Iraq to buy spare parts for its oilfields, but other sanctions remained in place, and the United States has consistently pressured the U.N. to stop exports of medicine and other needed supplies on the grounds they could have 'dual use.' As the former Secretary of Defense under Bush the Elder, Cheney was in particularly vulnerable position on the hypocrisy of doing business with Iraq. . . .

"Using two subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser, Halliburton helped rebuild Saddam's war-damaged oil fields. The combined value of these contracts for parts and equipment was greater than that of any other American company doing business with Iraq."

[Dnil]

psst, your probably using Iraqi oil now.  Oil is traded just like anything else, The cheapest source is bought and refined.  If Chevron can get it cheaper from Iraq then producing it from their own wells they buy it.  This keeps gas prices low.  Plus how do you know the Iraqi oil wasn't sold to Russia then resold to the US?  This way it looks as though no Iraqi oil has been bought.   Its business.


Also think of all the products around you that are made from petroleum.  Price goes up across the board on just about everything.

edit....

another thing 23 million is nothing in the oil business.  Rig prices are fuggin outrageous.  23 million is easily spent on single wells.

[Kieran]

Didn't we just have this conversation last week? Animal was a participant I know, though I am not sure if he started the thread.

As Toad says, we play the games to learn, not to earn bragging rights. Anyone with any intelligence at all knows this, and wouldn't try to spin it otherwise. If there's going to be a fight, I'll stick with the home team; I like our odds.

[Toad]

"If you want to know why the Democrats didn't jump all over this story and make a big deal out it, it's because -- as usual -- Democrats are involved in similar dealings. Former CIA director John Deutsch is on the board of Schlumberger, the second largest oil services firm after Halliburton, which is also doing business with Iraq through subsidiaries.

Americans have long been aware that corporate money has consistently corrupted domestic policy in favor of corporate interests, and that both parties are in thrall to huge corporate campaign donors. "

***

Molly Ivins, although I don't always agree with her is actually writer; you'll note she doesn't need to make up cute names for folks in her pieces. Unlike some other stuff we've been treated to lately.

[whgates3]

actually i didn't see that part of the column - i read it in howard kurtz' washingtonpost 'media notes', but i quite understand your insinuation. i hate dems as much as GOP members. elections are PR wars, & in a propoganda fight the least honest will always win.  thats how gore beat bradley, thats how bush beat mcain. thats how the two parties manage to steal a slowly, but steadily increasing (now about 50%) fraction of everything and remain in power. although i am an atheist, i would rather live in a theocracy. tithe is only 10%. a two party fake fight is not representative democracy

[Toad]

Yep, Mr. Gates, a pretty accurate summation.

[GRUNHERZ]

All Hail Great Leader!

He kinda looks like a wily mad dictator type....

[Swager]

There will be no war.  Bush is just playing it up to keep oil prices on the rise.  I mean as long as he is in the White House he might as well make money for himself and his oil buddies.

Americans are just a bunch of mindless pawns who let the government walk all over them.  Trust me, I know for I am one of these pawns.