Author Topic: 9/11 Opinions of todays youth  (Read 2012 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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9/11 Opinions of todays youth
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2002, 09:38:04 AM »
Far from a compliment.  

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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2002, 09:40:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Far from a compliment.  

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Really, are you sure ? :)
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2002, 10:04:20 AM »
Good and bad I defined these terms
Quite clear no doubt somehow
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Bob Dylan

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2002, 10:29:56 AM »
I'm also around your age Saur, and in college...

There's only two things about this country I love... the constitution and the bill of rights..


but love for this country? nah... unless you love a crooked federal government.
-SW

Offline Udie

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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2002, 10:46:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Good and bad I defined these terms
Quite clear no doubt somehow
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Bob Dylan



 Yeah but did he write that when he was "older then" :P

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2002, 11:10:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
They always come asking for the USA to do all the tough work.  


Isn't USA the one asking for support from other countries?
Like from puppet Blair?
Wasn't it USA who wanted to attack Iraqis, do the tough job without asking?
Who did wan't to do the tough job in Kosovo?

I don't see your point here about asking to do the tough job.


Why can't I critize USA?
You talk about socialistic people, but yet you deny other people their freedom of speech and classify critizing bad - just like they tend to do in socialistic and fasistic countries.
The "Freedom" americans talk about, doesn't seem that much freedom after all... "be with us, or be against us"
I bet you would look in an odd way at any fellow american who would come to critize in certain way..



Eagler,

Whos against the war should be declared upon?
Most of the hijackers were from saudi-arabia and egypt, but do I see them attacked? no...
Instead the war is directed to Afganistan and Iraq
Not that I would mind bad about getting rid of Talibans or Saddam...  why wasn't Saddam overthrown already in the gulf war? would of saved lot of trouble

Gulf War and Kosovo just represents well how American politicians only cares after mowing down certain areas and then leaving before the war gets so serious that they would get too big casualties.
Of course no support is given afterwards for the areas, the task is given to UN (and of course USA is in debt to UN and not willing to pay it off)

Hopefully Afganistan will show that USA has learned something from the past, what they did wrong in Afganistan in 80's and in Iraq and Kosovo - leaving before finishing the deal, just there for their own benefit.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2002, 11:12:36 AM »
1964 Udie.

Maybe the best lyric ever:

Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon," said I
Proud 'neath heated brow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.
 
Half-cracked prejudice leaped forth
"Rip down all hate," I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull, I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Girls' faces formed the forward path
From phony jealousy
To memorizing politics
Of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists
Unthought of, thought, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My existence led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now.

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2002, 11:14:43 AM »
Bob Dylan- my generation's Eminem.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2002, 11:17:55 AM »
Yer an idiot Fishu. The Gulf War was not about Iraq, it was about Kuwait. Once we had them pushed out of Kuwait, the Gulf War was no longer labelled Desert Storm. It became Desert Shield, defending and maintaining Kuwait's borders from Iraq. We finished what we set out to do, get Iraqis out of Kuwait.

It had nothing to do with going to war against Iraq or Saddam.

Now, we are at war with nations who harbor terrorists. It doesn't matter where they came from, it matters what nations support them.

Wonder how much support we would of had in 1991 to go in and get Saddam... wonder how much support we would have now... oh, I know.. very little either way.
-SW

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2002, 11:25:47 AM »
It is very interesting to hear this perspective from current college undergrads.  Although I cannot agree with everything you have written, I am heartened that there are some like you that, while certainly a minority, can recognize the left-wing, systematic attack on American culture for what it is.  

When I was an undergrad, in the mid-80s, I was shocked by the extreme left's systematic attack on our way of life and what I had been brought up to believe were common American values.  When I was in law school in the mid-90s, the influence of the far left was even more evident.  

I am a Midwesterner, but as a grad student and now as a laywer, I have spent a fair amount of time in and around the Bay Area.  I would be surprised if the average Iraqi hates America more than the average Berkeley student or professor.  It is nauseating to see such hate for the very system that allows those folks to spew their anti-America vitriol.

Perhaps the two most effective prongs of the left's attack have been "multiculturalism" and "political correctness."  

"Multiculturalism" is, almost by definition, anti-American.  Let's do away with the melting pot.  Instead, let's encourage everyone to celebrate the culture of their ancestors, to the exclusion of celebrating their American heritage.  

A necessary component of multiculturalism is giving people reasons to reject American culture and heritage.  How do we do that?  Let's paint patriots like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson as racists and bigots, unworthy of respect, let along status as cultural icons.  Let's teach kids in school in their "native" language, rather than insisting that they learn English.  Let's entertain notions like reprations.  Let's make Americans feel forever guilty about settling the continent.  Let's invent holidays like Kwanza.  There are many other examples, as I'm sure you're aware.  Has American had a spotless history?  Are its founders without blemish?  Of course not, but neither are the histories and historical actors of whichever non-American culture the leftists would have you embrace.  That inconvient fact is not surprisingly absent from the multiculturalist propaganda.

"Political correctness" is a pathetic mantra that has given rise to a culture of victimhood.  People now feel entitled--no, obligated--to take offense at almost everything.  We would much rather avoid possibly offending someone than to speak the obvious truth.  A culture that avoids the truth is a culture that is in decay.

Of course, what is the truth?  Another fundamental component of the leftist attack is moral relativism.  It is easy to justify any position, no matter how extreme it may seem at first blush, if nothing is absolutely right or wrong.  There are countless examples of prevailing social mores that have been wrought by moral relativism that should be repugnant to anyone with any attachment to reality.  There may be no better and well-known example than that propagated by organizations like PETA.  In a country where we routinely perform third-term abortions and are contemplating legalizing euthanasia (it is only a matter of time), the lives of animals are commonly considered as, if not more, valuable than the lives of humans.  

Since I first became cognizant of the extreme left's attack in the mid-1980's, I have seen things get consistently worse.  Indeed, those on the extreme left will not rest until everyone thinks, says, and acts exactly as they deem acceptable.  I mourn the loss of the country, culture, and heritage that my six-month old son will not inherit.

- JNOV

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2002, 11:51:17 AM »
The "extreme left" is no more dangerous than the "extreme right". I'm seeing a lot of attacking here with little or no substance other than the usual suspects... PC, Multicultural, Morals..  anyone disagreeing with your view is wrong and we are going down the drain.

BS.

PC may have gone too far, but it was extremely necessary in its inception. Opportunities have been created and people have increased their acceptance of things that were unthinkable 30 years ago. All due to PC.

Multiculturalism.... How long has the St. Patricks day parade been held in Chicago and New York? The Chinese New Year in San Francisco? St Josephs celebration in New York? When the "extreme right" attacks multiculturalism, it attacks Kwanza, Black History Month, Cinco de Mayo. Makes you wonder which "cultures" are American.

Morals are Morals. If it's legal and I think it's moral then blow it out your ass. Morals are personal issues that the extreme right wants to make into restrictive laws. All the while trying to get government off THEIR backs.

Saurdukar - A little minor revolt is as normal as hell in college. It has been happening for generations. Use your brain to counter the arguments and try not to take it too personally. We all grow up. Remember Liberals are just Radicals with kids and a mortgage.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2002, 12:13:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Saurdukar - A little minor revolt is as normal as hell in college.


Don't forget to read some Chomsky, he'll give your ego an intelectual hand job, and tell you how smart you are if you agree with him. It's facninating.

PS: Multi-culturalism is one of the most
American things ever in my opinion. Look at how well the puritans "melted" when they came over.  "Do what you will, but don't do it around me" seems to be the prevailing mindset to many of the settlements of the time. And, although I have no evidence of a direct corelation, we see some of the same things in how our neighborhoods are set up. Obviously, like anything else, multiculturealism can be overdone with harmfull effects. However there is nothing wrong with the basic concept IMO.

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2002, 12:18:23 PM »
MT:

You at once mischaracterized and failed to adress my post, with just a touch of discrediting indignation.  Very nice.  Maybe the wrong one of us is a lawyer (although, I must confess, I've never seen the phrase "blow it out your ass" in a brief).

- JNOV

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2002, 12:28:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Once we had them pushed out of Kuwait, the Gulf War was no longer labelled Desert Storm. It became Desert Shield, defending and maintaining Kuwait's borders from Iraq.


Incorrect.  Desert Shield was first.  It was the defense of Saudi and the build up of troops.  The came Dester Storm, the kicking of Sadam's ass.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2002, 12:32:30 PM »
Desert Shield was in place when we left...

It was probably Desert something else before the Storm... but Shield was after Iraqis had been routed.. atleast that's how I remember it.
-SW