Author Topic: 9/11 Opinions of todays youth  (Read 2016 times)

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2002, 05:49:07 PM »
LOL, you flatter me LoneStar.

But I already proved my point Grun. You identify with Croatia, and that is just fine with me. You can do that without reducing your ability to be an American one iota.

I certainly hope you don't want to reserve that right all to yourself. I'm sure there are Croatian Americans that enjoy the food and culture of Croatia even though they were born here in America. Just as there are Italian Americans, Irish Americans and African Americans who would like to celebrate their ancestory and culture. See, we do agree. :p

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2002, 06:17:38 PM »
Why the hell wouldnt I identify with croatia its my old country and my ancestory.

The problem would be if I all of a sudden demanded that Croatian culture be heavily instructed at US schools, or that they hire Croatian sensitive teachers, that they instruct in Croatian, that the emphasize Croatian accomplishments etc. Thats where multi crap becomes an issue.



Maybe you wanna see me as some sort of racist Nazi zealot, but I have no problem with other cultures or people. I like mexican food, like music from all over the world, I think Halle Berry is amazing, and have friends from all races and always had. I did grow up in a "multicultural" state, we had money with two languages, a country with Chatholics, Eastern Orthodox, Moslems, Jews and other Christians.  I liked the way it was, my best friend (we were practically like brothers) was a moslem and and one of my cousins is Serbian. I had Serb neighbors, Bosnian family friends who summered with us and all sorts of foreign tourists around me growing up. So there is nothing you PC types can teach me about multiculturalism. I lived it in a way thats beyond your theoretical classroom utopianism.

And I saw it destroyed.  Now read this carefully and remembver it every time I lash out against the 1990s US type multiculturalism.

All of my hatred for this US type multiculti comes from the fact that my way of life there was destroyed by race politics. We all pretty much got allong well until people began the race politics. The same sort of race politics are emeriging in the USA.  I honestly fear that this will only lead to the same sort of disaster in trhe US.  If you dont belive me just wait for some really bad economic times.

The people who demand the destruction of a common US culture and a US language to be replaced by their own are the same as the race politicans who destroyed my country. Be careful about them.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2002, 06:51:26 PM »
Tell that to the volunteer firefighters from NZ and Aussie who are over there helping fight them big arse fires you guys have on a regular basis.

Tell that to SAS guys from NZ, Aussie, and the UK who were in Afghanistan checking everything out before the US arrived there in force.

Its like the big kid in neighbourhood, one day when all the little runts gang up on you then you find who your real friends are.

Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Trust me on this one....the United States is more than capable of taking care of itself....we do not need anymore allies like the one's we've had.
 

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #78 on: September 12, 2002, 06:54:09 PM »
Oh well, I suppose I could just as well go to talk with Iraqis about USA being on the good side and Iraqis being the evil side...
Would probably end up with similar level of discussing.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #79 on: September 12, 2002, 07:15:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Oh well, I suppose I could just as well go to talk with Iraqis about USA being on the good side and Iraqis being the evil side...
Would probably end up with similar level of discussing.


Especially if you are unable to follow up your contentions with evidence.

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2002, 11:06:35 PM »
GRUNHERZ:

That's a great story; it really warms my heart to read it.  It is quite remarkable to me that, given your relatively short stay in this country, you have embraced the American culture and heritage that so many whose families have been here for genrerations are working so hard to destroy.  It is also telling that you understand so naturally what proponents of "multiculturalism" pretend not to: That nothwithstanding its benign name, "multiculturalism" is not merely about celebrating the culture of one's ancestors (that was happening, and rightfully so, for generations before anyone coined the term).  Indeed, that is only part of the story, albeit the part that proponents of multiculturalism point to in its defense.  If "multiculturalism" were no more than that, I doubt any would find it objectionable.  What multiculturalism is really about, however, is using people's "native" cultures as tools to undermine, weaken, and ultimately replace our common American heritage.

In response to something MT mentioned earlier (and at the risk of completely running away with this thread), I believe that the reason that those opposed to "multiculturalism" criticize things like "Kwanzaa," as opposed to, say, the Chicago St. Patrick's Day Parade, is because, unlike the latter, the former seeks to instill principles of separation and divisiveness, to replace our common American culture with another (in the case of Kwanzaa, a universal "African" culture).  For example, consider the following from a description of Kwanzaa:
Quote
We are Africans.
Recognizing yourself as an African is recognizing your status as a world citizen. When you recognize yourself as an African you realize that you sprang from the loins of the people who were the first to grow food, build houses, perform mathematical equations, perform feats of engineering, speak an intelligible language, and communicate using written symbols.

When you recognize yourself as an African you recognize that your are the Image of the man or woman God created whom God said was "good": The man or woman with thick lips, wide nostrils, coarse hair, and dark, brown skin. This Is African. This is the original man. To be African is to be beautiful.

And the "official poem of Kwanzaa":
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For so long I've been searching
for too long I've been searching
Never was taught much about the
Homeland

The Information I received was
always secondhand and
My soul has been yearning
while my memory has been
learning

How to deal with the vulture
that's been robbing me of
my culture

In my heart there's a song
since KWANZAA came along

KWANZAA. a seven day
cultural celebration
that unites African-American
brothers and sisters
In this once strange and foreign nation

Didn't come to America by way
of Ellis Island
We arrived in slave ships that
Took us from our African Homeland

The vultures went through great
pains to separate us from the
knowledge of our historical roots
and treated us like a pair of old
worn boots

KWANZAA, African-American brothers
and sisters uniting to hold on,
to the culture I've been searching
for for so long ... for too long.

(quotations from http://www.ritesofpassage.org/kwanza-b.htm)

I've been to the St. Patty's Day Parade in Chicago.  There was a lot of green beer and more than a few bad renditions of "Danny Boy," but I didn't see or hear anything akin to that.  :rolleyes:  

Although Kwanzaa's message, like most that are perversely seductive, contains elements of truth, it is ultimately unbalanced and destructive.  For instance, nowhere does it convey the evils of Black America's "African" heritage (i.e., centuries of slave ownership, slave trade, and tribal warfare, etc.).  Nor does it extoll or even recognize the obvious, highly material aspects of our American heritage and culture, such as the tremendous price this country paid (in blood, both Black and White) to eradicate slavery or the fact that the average Black American lives almost immeasurably better than his counterpart in Africa.

- JNOV

Offline Rude

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« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2002, 11:09:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Tell that to the volunteer firefighters from NZ and Aussie who are over there helping fight them big arse fires you guys have on a regular basis.

Tell that to SAS guys from NZ, Aussie, and the UK who were in Afghanistan checking everything out before the US arrived there in force.

Its like the big kid in neighbourhood, one day when all the little runts gang up on you then you find who your real friends are.

 


The aussies and relatives have been friends....I'm refering to the likes of France, Germany and such.

I apologize for painting with such a broad stroke.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2002, 02:17:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy


Especially if you are unable to follow up your contentions with evidence.

-Sikboy


Oo... I really see hard evidence brought by the others!
I only see gang bang spirit here, not evidences to thing or another... :rolleyes:

American double stantards I presume.

Offline Dowding (Work)

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« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2002, 02:32:19 AM »
Grunherz - what part of 'Rules of Engagement' don't you understand? The troops of the UN had their hands tied.

Do you really believe British forces deployed there were too scared of getting killed to use force against the perpetrators of the ethnic cleansing? You're living in some fantasy world and looking for someone to blame for the actions of your countrymen. The British forces deployed in the Balkans during the war were itching to get involved militarily; the sense of frustration was enormous. It's a documented fact. Yet they were soldiers in a defined chain of command - they had their orders.

Do you really believe your Croatian, Bosnian Serb, Bosnian cowards would have stood up to the British Army? lol

You're fond of calling the UN troops, and therefore British troops, 'rutabagas' and 'cowards'. I suggest the real rutabagas and cowards were the ones doing the killing (including Croats) and those that ran away at the wars end to more comfortable areas of the world, instead of staying behind and helping to rebuild.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2002, 03:27:26 AM »
Whatever it is they did pretty much nothing militarily useful till 1995 when the US and Brits helped us plan the summer "Storm" offensive.

While I agree with your boasting about UK military might and their obvious superiority to any Yogoslav force, what does that that have to do with the UN?

The UN rutabagas will not fight. Its that simple all they do is sit there, run over land mines and get taken hostage.  

I propose that the UN only hand out food and diapers while leaving any military duto to actual armies - politically willing and
able to die.

 
And where do I blame the UN for ethnic cleansing? I should certainly know that was all our fault. But I do place blame on the UN rutabagas who deliberatly lured thousands of helpless refuges to so called "safe areas" then just stood by, watching,  as supposedly incompetant serb army types just walked in took and killed everyone.  That I blame UN rutabagas for.

Where was all their military bravado then.  As for your precious rules of engagement what good are they if the exclude an open act of genocide as sufficient cause to open fire.

Tell me you Golly-geeded arrogant rich British who never had his home blown up. Tell me now!!!!!!!!!!!!! What good are they if their rules of engagement are so limited that even a new age holocaust before their very own eyes was not good enough.

Who in your family died in a war just a few years ago? Name one of your uncles who was never seen again after being abducted wounded from the Vukovar hospital? Was your mother nearly decapitated when a mortar landing in her yard simultanoisly destroying a swing bench your father had built by hand?  

So tell you indignant shameful basatard, what good are they if they have ridiculous rules of engagement?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #85 on: September 13, 2002, 04:18:04 AM »
//warning I've not read the whole thread (too lazy and it's in english ;)


I will appear out bound but each time I read the "Anti American" sentence I'm thinking of the "against the party" of former USSR :(

How an opinion can be Anti something ?

Offline Dowding (Work)

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« Reply #86 on: September 13, 2002, 04:23:32 AM »
The rules of engagement were ridiculous - that's my whole bloody point. They were ineffective and counter-productive. BUT it's not the fault of the troops who had to work with those rules - for god's sake, is it so hard for you to comprehend?! Because it's as clear as day to me.

To call those same troops cowards for obeying orders handed to them from high is a grave disservice and shows either gross stupidity or complete lack of knowledge of military affairs.

I was not boasting about the British army. I've never been one for machismo when talking about my country's armed forces - it's puerile and stupid. My point is that IF THE ROE HAD ALLOWED IT, the British army along with the other nations could have delivered a different outcome. And perhaps a better one.

Quote
...as supposedly incompetant serb army types just walked in took and killed everyone.


You don't have to be competent to kill unarmed civilians...

The dutch troops had their orders. With hindsight those orders were wrong. But hindsight is such a wonderful tool isn't it?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2002, 04:26:23 AM »
Exactly my point stated in a more dispassionate manner.  The UN peacekeepers are useless.

If their ROE are set up as they were then they are effectivley useles as was shown in the war.

Did any part of the Dutch orders deal with peacekeeping and preventing genocide?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2002, 04:28:32 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Dowding (Work)

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« Reply #88 on: September 13, 2002, 04:29:37 AM »
'Effectively useless' and 'cowardly rutabagas' are two entirely different terms.

I can see that and everyone reading this thread can see that. It's a shame that you can't.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2002, 04:35:23 AM »
Take away my anger and we are saying the same thing.

Tell me again did the Dutch orders include a provision to prevent genocide?