The Slot 1943 - Friday 13 Sep

[Soulyss]

I'm all for engine heat management that works in a predictible way and only punishes people for abusing the engine

I'd love to see more indepth modelling of the aircraft subsystems and their damage.  Engine management is one thing I would like to see, or an oxygen system that could be damaged affecting the pilot like a wound at high alts maybe.  And more little switches and such in the cockpit for me to fiddle with.

[brady]

Karnak, I thought I was the only one who was VERY suprised at how well the Wildcat handels, kinda made me wounder wtf all that stuff I read about it being unmanuaverable compared to the Zero.

[Squire]

That we want a balanced setup is a given, nobody here has asked for P-38Ls vs A6M2s.

Look, call it 1944 if it makes you happy, I dont care. The above setup I outlined is still workable, and fair IMHO.

No setup is perfect, but there are enough IJ and US a/c to do a good setup without resorting to the N1K2 and/or Hellcat every time.

I am also at a loss as to what a/c you would add that would make the mid war setup workable for the Japanese? Ki-43?, too slow and very lightly armed. I want it in AH, sure, but it doesnt do much for the IJ in the CT. Ki-84? hey, great fighter, but its late 1944, so it doesnt get included anyways. Ki-45? too slow again. Bottom line was, the IJ fought in the mid war SW Pacific with A6M2/3/5 and Ki-61s as their best fighters. There is no "missing 1943 IJ fighter" that would make up much for them, is there? For early US types, you have 2: P-40E and F4F. The P-39 is a "so so P-40", I dont see it changing much in CT setups either. Adding the P-38F only makes it worse for the IJ as well, it did 400 mph and had a wallop in the nose. Thems the breaks.

I do very much like the CT, and I dont want a good debate mistaken for anything other than passion for a point of view. We all appreciate the fine work the CMs do. I just disagee with some designs frome time to time .

Regards.

[Karnak]

Squire,

Easy.  The Ki.44 and J2M3.

BTW, the Ki.84 is not late 1944.  As I stated above it was in the hands of evaluation units in October, 1943 and deployed to combat sentais in March, 1944 whereupon it was in immediate combat.  The P-51D didn't enter squadron service for more than a month after the Ki.84 had seen its first combat.

[Löwe]

Well said Warloc.

I think Jarbo is doing his best to make everyone happy, and giving both sides good aircraft, for which we should all be thanking him.
If we want to pick it down to an acceptable 1943 type plane set, and you did ask for a 27th Sentai opinion on your setup.
 Warloc  as far as a 1943 setup yours is as good as your going to get, I do think the early model Corsair  ( A 1943 BIRD) should be added, other than that it looks great to me.

Last time Jarbo did a setup we came down hard like this on him, and we ended up with him backing off and somebody else's set-up coming in. I was responsable for a big part of the whining, and I don't want it to happen to him again. He's one of the guys that makes the CT great, and I'll be happy with whatever he decides to do.

SALUTE ALL

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

EARLY WAR? LOL, try the A6M2 / Brewster Buff and the arena will stay allied empty.

You allied flyers cry worse than my child. If you dont have the fastest, strongest, most fire power, you grab up your ball and go home with your lip poked out so far, it drags the ground.

Been flying AH for about a week now and this is what I have seen:

Allied spit drivers yelling about not having the spits even though the 109F guys actually turn fight with you so you can shoot them down. One too many burps of the cannons and the 109 is empty. The Hurri is built like a tank in AH and takes alot from the 110 to kill it. Then for the sorry shot like me, I land 100 assists..hehehe

The zeke dives a little too fast, who gives a mooses lips? The thing is like a 400mph unguided missle. Just turn your silly little F4F, Spit etc and the zeke will zoom right by so you can slip right back in at D500 and splash it!! Oh yeah,one small hit and the zeke losses one elyvator, all the advantage you F4F drivers need. Slows the radious down worse than what it already is.

P-51s, F4Us, and F6Fs B&Z the zeke but cry when the Goerge is out?..hmmmmm.............I promised myself I wouldnt do this in AH did enough of it in another flight sim.

If you want realistic, sub nothing. Design the planes and get them in there!!!!!!!!

 Where is the P-39, early P-38, A6M3 and Ki-43?

[Monk]

Nice site Hawk:)

[Squire]

Karnak: The Ki-84 was not in service in the Solomons, or the New Guinea theater, ever. Anyways, thats not my point, its hardly a 1943 fighter, which is the setup im arguing to see. You also mentioned the P-51D. It doesnt belong there either, I agree. Okinawa in 1945 for that one.

The Ki-44? Sure, add it at some point, I would like to see it. The 1943 version only did 360mph though, and had 4 x 12.7s. It was also built for speed, not manueverbility. No, its no magic solution either to the woes of the IJ.

J2M2? Nope. Service delivery in December 1943, true, but speed 370mph. The 1944-5 versions were faster (382mph), but not much faster than the N1K2 of the same period. This is not a 1943 fighter, and it never served in the Solomons or New Guinea either.

*The Ki-61 is as fast as either of the two above (370mph) , with as good or better armament (2 x 20mm and 2 x 12.7s), and AH has them already.* If the Ki-61 is not good enough then the Ki-44 and J2M2 wont be either.

*You guys DID notice that the F6F Hellcat is not even in my proposed 1943 setup at all right?

Btw, I would like to see the Ki-44, and J2M added to AH lineup. I am absolutely all for the IJ getting a lot more planes!!! They deserve them.

Btw 27th Sentai.

Regards.

p.s. Comments like:  "You allied flyers cry worse than my child. If you dont have the fastest, strongest, most fire power, you grab up your ball and go home with your lip poked out so far, it drags the ground."

-are made by those with nothing to say in the first place. Go ahead, sling more mud.

[Löwe]

Originally posted by Squire

*You guys DID notice that the F6F Hellcat is not even in my proposed 1943 setup at all right?

 

Yes Warloc, I noticed, personally I don't have a problem with the F6F in a 1943 setup, maybe I still got some VF-27 contamination left in me.
Musta been the  blood donation I got from Hijacker once.
Also I don't know how but for some reason I missed the F4U1 in your post last night. It was the only plane I could think of adding to your set-up, tired eyes last night I guess.
Again we can't do nothing about planes we don't have, and you are correct the planes that really fought the war in the Solomons for the Japanese were the Ki 43, A6m2/3/5 , and Ki-61.
The Ki44 was first used in Burma  I believe, and never made it to the Solomons, just like the Ki-84 was not used in the Solomons, and I am almost certain the J2m was never there ethier.
Allies biggest assets to that operation were F4F, F4U1, P-40 , P-39, and P-38.
Not much we can do guys but fly what we have and hope we get additions to the plane set that will help both sides with realistic matchups.
Look I am not going to lie, I want the best possible plane I can have for each setup, however I'm not looking for N1k2 vs P-40B's, just like you guys are not looking for F4U4.s vs A6m2s.
I also appreciate the arguements made by both sides, debate is a good thing I always learn something from these threads. No matter how passionate the dissagreement guys, use facts and opinions, try and wave off the outright insults, and we'll make better progress.
ERG YOUR A TATER HEAD! See it can be done.

[crowbaby]

I like the set up. I'm having fun.

I flew the A6m5 all last night and did o.k. unless i met Soulyss, lol.
I personally won't be flying the N1K because I want to learn to fly the Zero, and being in a N1K isn't gonna teach me anything, besides, it would really damage my ego....
                .........i can appreciate why people do fly it though, most of the time i was in yesterday, the U.S. had a 3 to 2 or better advantage in numbers.

I appreciate the set up, the work that goes into it, and bizarrely enough find myself agreeing with something Miska said:-
     "If one side is losing badly because it should (ie France 1940) I will fly that side and be happy to do my best in the historical situation."
If i'm outnumbered, or hit by an F6F with alt and E advantage, hell, i'll just do my best and learn some defensive flying.....sides were never, ever balanced in the real war, why on earth should we come in here moaning about that now?

Some scenarios will have realistic planesets, some will have fair planesets, but only within the scope of the available models, i can live with that.

[Löwe]

The A6M5 is no cupcake. I do better in it than any of the other 3 Japanese planes. It's got good speed, for zeke, great firepower, and manuverability.
Actually I don't see all the buzz over the N1k2, havent flown it much, I may fly it  more this setup if it stays, but everytime I fly the N1 I die. Maybe with it's reputation I'm expecting it to do the fighting for me.

[oboe]

I haven't made it in there yet myself, but thanks for running a PTO this week.

I would be fine with the removal of the P-51B, P-47, F6F, and N1K2 if we're trying to simulate early to mid 1943.

P40Es, F4Fs, and F4U-1s vs A6Ms and Ki61s should be the focus of the Solomons at this time anyway, shouldn't it?

Would love to see Ki43, A6M3, an earlier Ki.61, P-39D, and P-38F for the setup but until HTC gives us more, this is all the CMs have to work with.

[jarbo]

Reading the posts above, i want to thank all of you for the intput.  I know that some of the aircraft I included in the current setup were not in the Solomons in 1943.  However, I intended this setup to reflect a August 1943 setup, and many decisions were made for gameplay.....and I stand by them.  I have no desire to create a setup that the Japanese are destined to have their arses handed to them on a platter.  The N1K2J gives them a force balancer.  If I see the Japanese consistently keeping the U.S. pinned to one side I will consider removing it or pushing it to the back fields as it would obviously be an imbalance, but I will reserve the right to make that decision at a later date and when I feel the decision is not a "snap" decision.  

As for the F6F, VF-33 operated them in the Solomon Islands from August 43 to Jan 44.  I placed in on a CV for 2 reasons:  1) we have an actual hellcat squadron in the CT  2) The CV can be sunk denying use of F6F for 1 - hour plus drive time to next fight
(BTW: VF-27 actually operated off of the Princeton in 44)


On 12 July 1943, Rear Admiral Walden Ainsworth leads three cruisers and five destroyers on a combat mission up the Slot, the channel that divides the Solomon Islands in two.  It wasn't till 1 November 1943, that the U.S. Marines landed on Bougainville in the Solomon Islands.  So i think this setup is not all that far off the mark, based on the premise of allied stagnation in the area, availability of IJN planes, and  variety and balanced gameplay.

Jarbo
CT Staff

[Buzzbait]

Karnak:

Get your facts straight before you post.

The Spitfire 1 was in active service in the RAF in April of 1940.

In fact there were Squadrons stationed in the North of Britain.

There were no Spitfires actually landed and flown in Norway, but it is NOT a stretch to place them on a British base.

And in any case, I only added it at the end of the Setup, as a example of what might have happened, if the British had held out longer and chosen to deploy reinforcements.

In actual fact, I should have only allowed the Me110C4 on the Axis side, since the 109E was not used much in the campaign due to its limited range.

So you Axis flyers were doing just fine.

[Miska]

I think I have to disagree with the "balance at all cost" position the CT staff have expressed above.  It is interesting to see how and why the air battles were lost or won.  I don't fly in the CT to furball.  I could do that in the MA (and I don't).  Therefore, plane vs plane matchups are not how I evaluate a set-up.  I evaluate it in terms of 1) whether I learn anything about the period and place portrayed and 2) whether historical tactics and operational practices (at the squad level and above, NOT (NOT!) at the plane vs plane level) provide the results that they should.

In that sense, the Burma setups have been among the most succesful.  I am also very much looking forward to Wotan's 8th AF thing.  There was rarely ever a balanced situation in any airwar (WWII or other).  You win some, you lose some.  If the CT helps me learn about the factors involved in the historical outcome, I am happy. And this is true whehter I get 5 kills in the week, or I don't fire my guns once (and that happens on a regular basis).

If anything, being on the bad end of an unbalanced situation should leave you in awe of the people who stuck it out and tried to make a difference (no matter what side they were on).  Being on the good end of an unbalanced setup should leave you with no illusion that wars are won through individual skill.  In either case you should feel the futility and helplessness of it all.

That is difficult to do with Sci-Fi setups.