Will Aces High have a padlock view

[hblair]

Yep Westy, to the dissapointment of the dweeb population, F3 has been disabled online.

I'm not trying to be a smarta*s but why are you guys so bent on getting "padlock view"?

Do you not have your hat switch configged right or what?

Do you have a 4 way hat and/or haven't figured out how to look up?  

Heres a tip, press number pad 5 key while using hat switch, Walaaa! Now you can look up and around!

Seriously though, I'm thinking you guys may have grown dependent on it too much. I fly in WB's ACA arena a lot, you can use your external view in there to watch a guy on your 6 while outside your plane. I have grown used to making evasive moves while looking back at my plane and his plane behind me. Just because I have grown used to it doesn't mean I am gonna want that feature in Aces High. Those kind of features (as the padlock view) create lazy flying habits. I think we are much better off without that rinky dinky arcade B.S.

Like I said, just my opinion  

[-lynx-]

Another "nay" to the padlock...

Just one note to guys asking for padlock: multi-boogey engagement and you're dead. It's as simple as that.I guess then you'll start asking for a padlock that's tracking a guy who's aiming at you right now and so on...

I'm really curious how a padlock would work at all btw - how is it supposed to know who to lock onto? The one that's closer or the one you're chasing or the one that's chasing you? Just keep in mind that Falcon wouldn't normally cater for a nice furball  

------------------
-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[Shepard121]

I do have my 4 way hat configured... it's my Thrustmaster FLCS.  I also have to configure other hats to get the 45 degree views..

Target fixation isn't a problem with the padlock.  Just switch back to check 6, or have your wingman telling you the situation.  That's the real SA boost right there.  The wingman is supposed to cover your tail so you can be fixated on the target and clobber him ASAP and move on.

Staying in padlock is a bad thing..that's why you need "glance" views... and the snap views work nicely for that.

My suggestion would be to allow you to pick your target you want to padlock with F3 (since it is not external view anymore! ;-)  and have the snap views override it (left, right, forward, backwards) but when you let off the snap views, it would come back to padlocking your target (as long as you still can see him) just as it defaults back to the F1 view (forward)

That way, no magic, just a tool in the same sense as any view key.  If you can't see him, you should not be able to padlock him.  But if you can see him, then by all means, you should be able to track him in a padlock view.

BTW: I do use the snap views...and it's alright, but I have a better feel for the sense of flight when my head tracks the target.  How many pilots do you think snap their heads at 45 degree angles.... heads swivel!

[Minotaur]

"Alright Alright, Now I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it any more"

Padlock is a probably a dead issue in AH, any comments for or against are mute.

It is the Clone Drone Mindset that goes somthing like "GuppyDweeb using Padlock is an easy mark, because they are Target Fixated", that irritates me.

Actually the mindset should be "I am a Padlock Fixated GuppyDweeb, I don't know how to use Padlock effectivly, I am an easy mark so everyone else must be".

IMO the leading cause of getting shot down is low SA.  Being fixated on one thing cause's huge amounts of SA loss.  IT DON'T MATTER what kind of view you are using, or wether your dog just puked on your rudder peddles.  FIXATION CAUSE'S SA TO BE DEGRADED EXPONENTIONALLY.

IMO GUNNERY is the leading cause of shooting down others.  Your guns shoot 90 degrees relational to your lift vector.  TARGET FIXATION IS THE GREATEST FACTOR IN GOOD GUNNERY.

How fast one can switch between good SA and good Target Fixation is the mark of an excellent pilot, not HOW or WHICH view they use.

IMO Padlock View is just another feature VERY common to modern flight sims.  IT IS JUST ANOTHER VIEW.  Padlock can be initially disorientating, but actually increase SA.

Padlock gives you the angle and velocity of your plane vs padlocked plane.  This is because you see the nme plane as you actually would see it, and that computes faster and easier in your brain.  

Your butt, in the seat of your plane, being your reference, and your eyes seeing the targets relational aspect.  I am assuming you are connected to your plane by your butt, your butth^le is parallel to your lift vector.

A formula for Padlock use during a multi-bandit fight (there are many more I am sure).  

1) Sweep all snap views, roll inverted and repeat, get a good SA picture --> 5 secs
2) Use snap view, observe target --> .25 secs
3) Lock Padlock, observe the relation of your lift vector vs nme planes lift vector --> .45secs
4) Get back into cockpit and manuver
5) Repeat steps 2 & 3 or proceed to step 6 when you are in shooting range
6A) Become 100% fixated on the target and make the kill  --> 5 secs
6b) Be killed because you have no SA  --> 10 secs
6c) Dis-engage, go to step 1 --> 5.01 secs

Any good pilots use a view much longer than .5 secs in a furbal except right before taking a shot?

Mino

[Zephler]

All I have to say is, not everyone is a retired pilot, a pilot at all, or even been in a real plane. I think the external views should be reimplimented. It is too much of a pain in the arse to try to look around using the keyboard while trying to chase a bogey at the same time. That and the views behind ya aren't exacly great in a few planes . . . ex.  
-> Dweebfire. . . 190 . . .

[Curly]

Um, Zephler?

When <curly starts loading baby seal buckshot into the guns>  do you fly????

[Stiglr]

Having read the above comments, I'm even more dead set against padlock view.

Learn your hat, get your own views. Period. Next you "padlock" people will be asking for dot commands to do auto-chandelles, split-Ses, loops, and hammerheads.

[miko2d]

 I have no doubt, (as I am sure anyone familiar with WB) that there will be no external view available in a single-pilot fighter planes in the general arenas.

 Visibility, especially the rear visibility is one of the most important things in a plane. Removing the difference would seriously affect the balance of planes.
 In WB many more people would fly F6F and F4U if they did not have that huge armor plate behind.
 At the same time many good pilots managed to survive B&Z attacks in Japanese planes because of the exellent rear view and maneuvrability.

 The padlock can be implemented with the ability to snap out of it temporarily. I am all for it even though I do not think it the first priority.

miko--

[Shepard121]

what does wishing for a padlock do have to do with needing dot commands to perform BFM/ACM?  it makes no sense to even bring that into the conversation....

As for snap views.. I personally can do it.  I prefer a padlock that tracks my target once I have spotted it, and I like to take glances to the rear and forward to maintain my SA and have my view return to my target.  In JAne's F-15, if you glance forward or backwards for too long while in padlock mode, your padlock is broken and you have to reaquire.  (find the bandit again) but a quick glance forward or backwards, and the view returns to track your target.


Since we're off tangent anyhow... how bout the names and numbers on planes... yup, now THAT is a SA crutch.  It's impossible to sneak up on someone (stalk) when you have big neon letters saying "SPIT"

Course, it's added to aid playabiltiy and make up from lack of SA due to graphics limitations....

Just think how the same could apply to a tracking camera that follows your target as if your head were following it... or even tracking with your eyes.

Since we have no padlock, those of us who want it have to adjust and live with it.  Adding a padlock takes nothing from the game (as long as it's not a magic padlock that sees through your plane, swivels your head 360) but it could add a nice immersive feel.

I might consider changing my callsign to robot since the views are too mechanical.

-Shep

[-kier-]

This is an issue that finds little middle ground... guys on the less experienced end tend to be in favor of padlock/external views, those on the experienced end are usually against. Over time, and as the new flier gains experience he/she gains a respect and even the desire for no external/padlock. Not to sound elitist there, this has been my experience.

It's like this. We all start with a desire to be instantly successful in a game. We want to bypass that painful end of the learing curve in some forlorn hope that we might be "special", and somehow born to be the best. Fact is, everyone takes their lumps. Once we get enough lumps we have the experience to survive and be successful, else we have moved on. Generally the people who stay on want more realism- it's more immersive that way.

The question remains then, why build in a crutch that soon most pilots would find unnecessary and even undesireable in a very short time anyway? To me, to spend one iota of time on these aspects only detracts from (IMHO) more vital aspects of the long-term success of the game. It's not that I care so much that we have or don't have these features, it's more that I personally rank them so far down the list of priorities that I would want virtually nothing about the game to be put below them.

And yes, developing proper ACM, even BFM (how many have used external to land their a/c? Be honest!) is affected by the availability of the omniscient God-view. In the spectrum of game<---->simulation these crutches moves us further to the left.    

[This message has been edited by -kier- (edited 11-12-1999).]

[Minotaur]

Stilg;

The only thing that sounds truly silly to me is this statement.

Quote: "Next you "padlock" people will be asking for dot commands to do auto-chandelles, split-Ses, loops, and hammerheads."  :End Quote

Stilg, You forgot Double Roman's, Low Yo-Yo's and Otto pilot.  Wait, we already got Otto pilot.

The planet earth is indeed round.  Think about how long that concept was HEE-HAW'd, by the righteous, only to be proved foolish beyond believe.

Although quite humorous, many Anti-Padlockers resort to Hee-Haw's.  While most Pro-Padlockers provide logical arguments, if only their opinion.  Padlock will probably not happen in AH anyway, so this only quadruples my amusement.  

What fear does Padlock create?  Got me on this one.

-Kier-;

I am definately opposed to external views, but that is my experience. External views remove realism IMO.

I found your post well thought out. I agree with you up to one point.  IMO your logic concerning experience is off.  

Quote:  guys on the less experienced end tend to be in favor of padlock/external views, those on the experienced end are usually against :End Quote

Pilot expereince gained up to date was gained WITHOUT the use of Padlock.  It is difficult to judge this comparison, as the people who are in favor of padlock, have gained their experience by USING Padlock.

I state two examples why I believe this:

1) Experienced Teamsters thought Steam Powered Trains were not worthwhile --> Experienced Steam Locomotive Engineers thought Diesel Electric Locomotives were not worthwhile --> Experienced Diesel Locomotive Engineers thought etc etc etc

2) Experienced US Army Corps Personel believed Aeroplanes would serve no function in war other that observation platforms.

I believe we have arrived at the crux our discussion.  Thanks -Kier-.

Mino


[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 11-12-1999).]

[Westy]

"I might consider changing my callsign to robot since the views are too mechanical.      -Shep"

Or "computer" because you want the computer to do the looking for you.

Actually I could go either way. Padlock is a cruthc for those who feel inadequate to the task of learning good situational awareness.
Padlock users = more dweeby pile-its for me to fatten my score with. Bring it on! Give it to em!  

 On the other hand it would help folks like BulletHeads friend who is handicapped to be even able to fly here.
 
 --Westy

[Minotaur]

Westy;

Your arguement IMO, also has a weakness.

Quote: Padlock is a cruthc for those who feel inadequate to the task of learning good situational awareness. :End Quote

Padlock use or any static view use, for an extented duration of time decreases SA.  It does not increase it. You, IMO, are comparing apples to cabbages.  

You must rotate your views, and keep your focus changing to increase your awareness, not focus on one thing.  Padlock simply provides another aspect to a Sim view system.

Newer people generally are in favor of Padlock, more experienced are not.  These "PadlockDweebs"     will be slaughtered by better flyers no matter what VIEW they use.  

You can check my score.      

If after 2 to 3 years of padlock use (hypothetical), your response might be different and you might find yourself a "PadlockDweeb" just to compete with these "Young Guns".

Jedi, is going to love this one...    

When I look at something, I look right at it. I turn my head and move both my eyeballs.  Whatever it is, it is smack dab in the middle of my vision.  I don't look at half of it or turn my head and strain my eyes so that it is the left quarter of my vision.

AH people are comfortable with the idea of simulated flight, but many seem very uncomfortable with the idea of simulated human vision.  

Give me a Pan View System, that is easy to use while I have all my phanlanges connected to my flight equipment, and I will never have another thought along the Padlock View lines.

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 11-12-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 11-12-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 11-12-1999).]

[Shepard121]

FYI: I'm not a young gun.  I've been doing flight sims for 10+ years... and I have had plenty of kills using padlock and fixed views.  

A-10 Cuba is one of my favorite all time sims...yet there was no padlock there... yet I managed to rack up my share of kills.

No, my SA is fine thank you... I wonder what people who have lost their thumb do... can't move padlock without your thumb... guess they are just S.O.L. eh?

Well, I've argued my point... if HTC decides not to put in a padlock, I'll fly... if they do put it in, I'll fly with a smile.

See ya in the air... have a good weekend...

Shep

[Minotaur]

Shep;

You are INDEED a "Young Gun", relative to this game.  There people here that have been playing just this style game for over 10 years, the developers included.  They have become truly awesome at it.

I mean no negative conutations at all.

Enjoy your weekend as well, I am working  

Mino