I hope the Allied fliers who whined the N1K2 away are having fun now.

[HFMudd]

would be for me, i stink anyway, I was 0 for 5 the other day, mostly to Busc and Mudd in their crummy IJN iron and me in my superior F4 and 51

Hmm.  I sure see the text "HiJacker shot you down" a lot.

Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that the IJN Iron was crummy.  I don't feel it is.  One on one vs. anything but the F4F, which eat me alive, I don't feel overmatched.  I do feel a bit frustrated and with limited options yes, but not overmatched.

I honestly like the A6M5.  Good visibility, decent cannon and jamming the stick into a corner usually will get you out of trouble.  Every few flights I manage to compress and auger but what the heck, somebody gets a kill and goes home a little happier.


What I don't like is having to fight three different aircraft types at once.  This is the ahistorical piece that we have never solved in the CT.  1:1.5 or 2:1 odds don't really bother me too much, but attempting to out ACM a F4F while at the same time dodging a  BnZing P47 and attempting to E-Fight an F6F does.  Leviathn or Drex will get all three, I on other hand simply strive to make them work for it before I get the free pass back to the tower.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by oboe
I want to believe Kweassa's post, because the success of the CT depends on it, but I can't find evidence of its intent with what's happened in this setup.   We've gone from one ahistorical extreme to another.

Yo, Oboe!  

You're probably right about historical extremes.  I think, though, that you and some others in this thread perhaps are losing sight of the Really Big Tension that's inherent in the CT, and that Jarbo was wrestling with when he stayed up until all hours arranging this setup for our amusement.  And that is this:  History v. Balance.  Most historical setups are going to be unbalanced, just because that's how things worked out in real life.  In the CT, this means that the sides will be unbalanced, because of all the people who don't want to fly for the Loser Side.  Anyone who logs on to AH, and who is curious about the CT, will note the 2:1 imbalance and move on to the MA, and we will lose our total numbers, and Hitech will replace us with something like Mission Arena.  Pretty sad.

OTOH, this IS supposed to be a more-or-less historic arena, and so we get upset when we see P51s in the Pac in 1943.  Without the CT cadre, the CT will revert to its old self, that is to say, it will be empty at all times.

I imagine that Jarbo looked at the historic planes available for mid-1943, and thought something like "those dancing Zeros are going to cream those poor P40s and Wildcats.  Better even things out with a plane addition for the allies."  Once you get started, where does it end?  Niki for the Japanese, and so on.

I'm very, very happy that we have our Jarbos who will spend their time fussing around with this sort of problem.  I don't imagine that they will always get it right; that's the nature of experimentation.  I'm willing to drink the mistakes, because, IMHO, our CT has it hands-down over the well-balanced-but-pure-fantasy MA.

- oldman (sits down, red-faced)

[oboe]

Oldman, and Jarbo!    I could honestly start every post with how much I appreciate the work the CMs put in on the CT - it literally brought me back to AH from a sim-less existence.  

I apologize if my post came across to strongly.   Tweaking a PTO setup for balance/history has got to be one of the toughest acts there is right now.    (IMO, it'll even be tough when the planeset is completely fleshed out).     YOu are right on the money, there, Oldman!   I do appreciate you guys making the attempt, observing and making changes as necessary.

Whatever Jarbo comes up with, 27th Sentai will be there Tues and Thurs nights.    And I hope if the sides are imbalanced, people will switch and fly Japanese to even them out.

Personally I'm looking forward to some Ki61 vs P-40E fights.  Hope I can find some!

!

[Slash27]

I can understand being frustrated with the set ups being the " whiney vulching chute shooting Allied LW basher" that I am. But am i to understand that we should not have the P-51,P-47,F4U,F6F, and the FM-2? But keep the N1K, but make it available at all bases so as the unbalanceing P-40E does not run rampant?

I dont disagree with tweaking the set up some. Removing the P-51B is fine with me and even the P-47 (though id rather have it:D ). We do need more Japanese planes but thats a given. None of what im saying really matters because we wont come to an agreement on a plane set anyway.

I think the fact that this is breaking down in whiney roadkill name calling is sad. My .2 cents. Dont give a damn if you like it or not at this point.

and thanks to the CT staff for all your hard work.

[Squire]

My squad will be there tuesday night at 9:00 EDT for our regular CT night. If we see an imbalance for #s or types flown we will be flying IJAAF the whole time.  You wont see us in P-51s.

In regards to the "conspiracy theorists" from both sides. You are just plain wrong about that, many players like to see balanced sets, most I would argue. I wont change any minds by saying that, but I think it is true.

Regards.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

OK, now that I have had a day to chillll out I will change my wording about the CT Staff. They do work hard on makeing the CA and other arenas what they are. My complaint is that they seem to catter towords the allies a little more that the axis, however, I have only been in AH for a few weeks if that. Maybe I came on at a bad time who knows....

I just dont recall many if any accounts where P-47s, P-51s, F6Fs and F4Fs were attacking the same damn field!!! Is that Historical?

Screw the N1K2 thats not my focus.

Last night I flew the A6M2 just to see what would happen. I was surrounded by countless F4Fs, P-51s, F4Us, P-47s and one or two P-40s. Very seldom was I able to shoot at anything due to evasive manuevering trying to keep from getting shot down.
 The allies continuosly came in in a steady line from where ever they were comming from. Even when I brought in a N1K2 there were too many P-51s and F6Fs that I couldnt get low enought to fight anything because eventualy I would get caught.

The allies know that the IJN/A caint run in a givin plane as the F4U, P-40, F4F, F6F, P-47 and even the P-39 if flown right.

If one caint catch you one caint kill you, we all know this. This game will never be historical, you caint make allied players forget they dont know how to NOT fight the early war Zero in the F4F, therefore even in early war, Allies still have the advantage.

And another thing, just as soon as the main arena guys find out just what a zeke fest there is in the CA, they remind me of migrating birds!!!! Extra Extra Extra, read all about it, The CA now serving Zekes for lunch!!!!!!!!

Many Allies dont care about RTBing a kill, they come in one life after the next just to drop bombs die and replane to be able to sink ships etc........

enough for now

Damn better proof read next time...eek spelling sucks!!

[HiJack]

once again I agree with almost all of you, on one point or another.  The fact that most ct maps cant be done exactly the way it was during the time period of that map will always upset the apple cart, the ct staff try to make it as interesting and fun as always possible, in their opinon.  You cant make everyone happy all the time, and some you cant make happy any of the time, so what the hell makes the diff?  VF27Hellcats fly every Tues and Thurs, alot of the time we really hate the setup, but what the hell, its always better than the ma, always!  Some post their dislike for certain maps, I dont always agree with what some of my squad say or do, but we all have opinions, I have read some really nasty posts about milkrunning and gangbanging and bad setups and whining about one side or the other getting their way, one thing is for sure VF27 flys every tues and thurs no matter what, we want the ct to survive, we do not milk run, we very seldon ever try to capture a base, what we do is try to make a fite for everyone no matter what the setup or the planes, and if we happen to get good planes we fly them, if we get bad planes we fly those to, just like everyone else.  We are all in the same boat, and a little suggestion to the ct staff is good, name calling and such has no place here, just fly what you have it will only last for a week, try to make the best of it.  The ct has the most couteous and friendly pilots in the game, lets try to keep it that way.  Great job Jarbo!

[ergRTC]

I think hijack hit some fundamentals here.  

Now, I formally apologize for the 2 pages of silliness that I started over the last setup,  I think I started something bad, and we should stop.

now for the fundamentals...

1.  When things have gotten so tense that a person will blame the planeset on dieing when outnumbered means we need to settle.

2.  Base capture really isnt part of the CT.  It never has been.  It is tough coming from the ma and finding something other than furballing to do if you dont think a little.  Base capture is really pointless and dissappointing in the CT, to the point where I think the maps should have it disabled.  Here is my idea.....

Disable base capture.  If possible make strat targets more plentiful in new maps or redos.  

Make hangar downtime 1 hour.  Make fuel and ammo downtimes 1 hour.  Make ack downtime 1/2 hour.  

Make hangars a little stronger so guys straffing will have a harder time at it.

Here is what happens......


You pork a base and they will slowly lose plane support/ammo/fuel/radar/hangars, but after that nothing else changes.  Somebody could bring a goon in (does it work that way in here?) if they need to.  

What do you do to have fun?  Furball, organize a torpedo run on an enemy destroyer group, do a jabo run on a fuel depot, do anything you want!  Just set yourself a 'win' scenario and go at it.  If you take off with the intent of putting torpedos into a destroyer, and you do it, and live, it is actually rather enjoyable.

Whatcha think?

[Karnak]

Slash27,

Are you intentionally dense, or does it just come naturally?

The fact of the matter is that Jarbo's original setup, while not historical at all, was fairly balanced.  Removing the non-historical N1K2 from play while allowing the non-historical aircraft in was balancing to remain created a completely unbalanced and completely unhistorical setup.  The worst of both worlds.

Now, we need to decide what we want from the CTMs who so graciously donate their time to this.  Do we want absolute historical accuracy, or do we admit that we are playing a game that needs reasonable balance for it to be entertaining?

If we want to go historical, lets go all the way.  The F6F-5 wasn't in service until July, 1944.  If the CT setup is set in June, 1944 then the F6F-5 does not get in.  The A6M5b was in service in May, 1944.  If the setup is April, 1944 or earlier, then the Japanese just have to make do with the A6M2.  Absolutely no fudging and no stand in units at all.  Make the rule ironclad so nobody can squeak about it.

If we want some balance so that there is a challenge for both sides then we are going to have to let the CTMs do their thing and not squeak at them the moment we have a tough fight that we lose.  No more running to mommy to get the bully suspended.  Allow the CTMs to have the leeway to play with the historical reality enough to make balanced setups.

[Miska]

100% right erg.  "Base capture" doesn't belong in the CT.  I think Wotan is proposing to do something like this.  He has much larger non-airfield facilities to bomb in the terrain and he plans to make them tough.  That means people will have to run organized and escorted bomber raids.  I am all for that.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

I think we need to forget the "historical" aspect of the CA and just try to fly plane sets of the same year in sequence to the best that CA and AH can give us with no subs just to show that we need more planes to use as the way they need to be used in the CA.

As I said before, start early war and work onward. CT Staff needs to look for what is being abused and help us nip it in the butt!! No steady steams of airplanes comming into a field untill its captured etc.  Stop putting capturable bases so close together. Make field captures harder to get to and capture. One thing is for sure, (not trying to be historical but..this is not the MA) I dont think fields were so easy to cap and capture in WWII as they are in CT as one person just said in a tread here or on that other post....Field capture is what we are here for.Ok fine, so lets make it harder, for now its too easy. Lets make the CVs harder to sink. The flak is enough I think, just up the hardness.  


Any other opinions?

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

missed Karnak and mista's post but thats what I say. Forget the base capture all together. Let the bases be captured by the CTM's on a daily dated routine per yearly advance as the fighters/bombers/vehicles are activated. Maybe the fields cities can be disabled for 15 min or so then gradually reopened untill the above said.

[ergRTC]

wow karnak what crawled up your pants and bit you on the inside of your ***.  ;P

Somebody needs some time in the little padded room.

[CIU]

Holy CRAP! I think its time for a


<>

ahhh dosent that feel better now!

[Slash27]

Did you even read my post Karnak? Or were you just ready to continue your whining and get in a few more jabs at somebody?

BTW  what the hell is your point? Did i say somewhere that i wanted an unbalanced set up?

Where did i say remove the N1K and leave something else?

Where did i run and tell on the "bully"?

Who's doing the most squeaking?

talk about dense.

Im all in favor of something more historicaly accurate, thats why i love the CT. But with people like you its getting a little less fun. And no i wont be going elswhere i rather us just work this out and get back to the fun instead of this roadkill. We all need to relax a bit (including me) before this becomes another MA.